TRD Anti-Roll Bars (22.2mm) complete with TRD bushes Group Buy No. 2 !!!

[larry93]

Hi guys, i am awaitng a phone call back form a paypal supervisor. i have to give the 72 hours but will phone up again tomorrow and keep on to them untill they close this case and return the funds. they said they are really busy at the moment with the high level disputes they have recieved

Will update as soon as i know, thanks, Larry.

[terribleone]

Not to throw a cat amongst the pigeons here, but I'm wondering what rights we have as consumers when buying goods on a group buy from a trader.

Surely, as with any other trader...you pay money upfront for something and then get the item.

If the item is out of stock or there are problems with the order, the customer gets their money back while the trader deals with the problem.

Should this not be the case here?? You said that you'll cover our money either way so can we not ask for our money back now, and you settle the dispute in your own time??

If I knew we had no consumer rights, a) I would have first used paypal, not a bank transfer and b) I'd think twice about entering a group buy in the first place.

[terribleone]

I have been in touch with my bank, as I paid by Bank Transfer..I'm not entitled to anything back as it was sent to an individual person.

All those people who have paid by Paypal will not be entitled to any money back as we waited so bloody long for you to even realise that this guy had been sacked that we were past the 45 day period.

Also, since when do Toyota take Paypal!!??

I will be taking legal action shortly unless this is sorted out and our money refunded, and I urge everyone else to also. We have your bank details to do so.

Everyone who has been involved in this, read through the last 6 pages and realise what a load of rubbish it all is, we've just been fobbed off with excuses until we get to a point where we aren't entitled to claim our money back...Personally, I think we've all just paid for a guy to go on holiday in Australia.

Over to you...

[Moo]

Sorry Larry but some very good points have been made in the above post and I have to agree with terribleone. We've all been very patient but this has been dragging on for far too long and all we seem to be getting is lame excuses.

You are very probably as much a victim of this as we all are but as the trader and organiser of this the resposibility for this b*lls up lies with you. I'm sorry for you that it's gone this way and come to this but I can no longer wait for my money. I am no longer confident of receiving a refund through your efforts with Paypal so I respectfully request that you refund my money in short order or I also will be forced to take legal action against you to get it back.

[JohnnyC]

As i said to you all if paypal dont pay out then i myself will use my own savings and pay you all back, then i will claim the money back from paypal.

I think you'd be doing yourself a huge favour by doing that, if you want any future customers

[PsyKen]

I too, feel that I have been most patient with this group buy, and if matters are not resolved shorlty, I will also be taking legal action.

I hope this get resolved before any further action in necessary.

[TheJonse]

Dear Larry93,

I along with others on this 'group buy' feel that this has gone on long enough.

You have got until the end of business Thursday the 8th January 2009 to provide me with a set of TRD anti-roll-bars as described in your original posts, or to return the money paid to you by myself in full.

If this does not happen, I will be forced to start legal action (to recover the the money) against yourself.


Ian Johnson.

[pacman160778]

Don't usually post on this forum, but making an exception as theres a couple of guys on a forum i do use involved in this group buy so posting to let them and you know whats happening here...

I'm sorry to hear of all the trouble you've had with this but maybe you're not familiar with paypal's dispute and claim system as no-one thats posted in this thread seems to know much about it. I've been a trader on ebay and various forums for a very, very long time and have put a LOT of money through the paypal system, and i'm talking maybe £20k+

Basically there is 45 days from the date the payment was made to raise a dispute for goods not received (or 'significantly not as described' if purchased through ebay). Then you have a further 20 days to escalate the dispute to a claim which basically means you are asking Paypal (well, one of their staff) to make a decision on whether a refund is to be granted, based on the information that has been supplied by both parties. If the seller doesn't respond and provides no trackable proof of sending the item, Paypal will refund the buyer in full (this actually leaves sellers wide open to buyers who fraudulently claim not to receive items and they claim and receive a refund if the seller doesn't send it with a tracking number, but thats another story ).
So if like the seller here says, he paid the guy with the strut braces via paypal and they weren't received, then if he re filed a dispute within the 45 days from payment and then escalated it to a claim within 20, he will receive the refund and he will pay you all back your money

HOWEVER, heres the bit that you's aren't going to like and the outcome which to me sounds most likely If you DON'T register the dispute within the 45 days then your money is basically GONE. In fact, if you try and file a claim after the 45 days on Paypal it will show on your paypal account as the dispute being active, then you will get an email pretty much immediately saying that the dispute has been closed as its outside the time frame for lodging one. I haven't been checking the dates on the posts here and don't know what date the trader here sent the paypal payment to this sacked Toyota guy, but if its more than 45 days then i'm afraid there is no dispute and no claim like you are being told about
To rub salt in the wound, Paypal will only allow one dispute/claim per transaction, and once it has been closed (even if its been closed immediately due to being outside the 45 days), it CANNOT be re-opened.

I know this all sounds unfair, and it is, but its all in the Paypal T&C's which you can check. I've been stung a few times in the past so always make sure i follow everything to the letter with Paypal as if you don't you run a very high risk of losing your money.

Hope you all get your money back one way or another though.

[redeye32uk]

I think if we have to go the legal route (and its starting to look that way) we should get together and do it all together. I agree we should give untill the 8th of Jan '09 as this has gone on for to long now.
Larry is an IMOC Affiliated Trader so where do we stand?

[larry93]

Hi Guys,

I feel this is an attack at me ?.

I understand you all want your money back, so do i.

i have ordered a few sets with this order.

Yes toyota do take paypal. they list auctions all the time through ebay.com also i thought paypal was the saftest way to pay.

This will be the last every group buy i do. i have tried to help in anyway i can, maybe not enough updates but i have not had any.

I am giving paypal to look into the dispute unill the saturday 3rd. If it is not resolved by then i will refund everyones money back via paypal and cover thier charges from my own money on sunday.

this is the fairest i can be.

I will be in touch on sunday to let you all know what paypal have to say and refund the money from my own savings if its not been resolved from paypal yet.

Larry

[Slarty]

To be honest, I'm shocked at some of the allegations being levelled at Larry. I was in the previous groupbuy for the TRD anti roll bars and it all went smoothly, the bars even turned up a day early.

To suggest that Larry has used the money to go to Australia is down right insulting and borderline slanderous.

[jmachling]

OK - this stops here.

I can fully understand people not being happy that they have paid for something they have not received, however, Larry has given an explanation, hasn't disappeared and appears to be using the PayPal system to get the money back.

Whether or not he succeeds, he has offered to refund all from his own pocket. He's been updating this thread but, unfortunately, PayPal disputes and claims take time and this has been pointed out.

Larry has now set a date after which he will refund people and I fully expect him to do so. Let's please stop pointing fingers and casting aspersions and wait until Sunday, after which I hope all your money will be forthcoming.

It is also a good juncture to point out that Affiliates of IMOC are precisely that - they are not part of IMOC-UK Ltd nor are we responsible for them. They pay a subscription for the right to advertise to different levels on IMOC forums, no more, no less. We take contact and other details in case of eventualities such as this but do not get involved - details would only be released after a direct legal request from the police or other suitably appointed offcial.

The contract is between the Seller/Trader/Company and the individual, as set out in IMOC-UK Ltd's Legal Notice, accessible from the top of every page or here:

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4380

[pacman160778]

I am giving paypal to look into the dispute unill the saturday 3rd.

So you did raise the dispute within the 45 days?

If you didn't, Paypal WON'T be refunding the payment you made to the guy from Toyota. And i'm surprised that you are saying they are looking into it, because if its outside the 45 days then they won't and will just say that their terms and conditions state exactly that. What makes your case so special that they would go against their policy and allow you to put a claim?

I've been through this before with paypal, and believe me no matter how many times you call them (when you eventually get through to them after being on hold a ridiculous length of time!) and email them, the end result is the same; no refund.

It seems that its you that has been the victim of this guy and in turn the members here have been victims. But chasing Paypal is going to be a dead end for you unfortunately if its outside the 45 days. It looks like its you who will have to shoulder the cost of the refunds.

[Moo]

I've made no allegations against Larry and never thought he'd done a bunk with our money. Threatening legal action was premature and in hindsight uncalled for so I apologise to Larry for this

[terribleone]

Looking back through the posts you made Larry, payment was made on Wed 01 Oct 2008...and you posted saying you've opened a dispute on Tue 02 Dec 2008.

That's more than 45 days.

Apologies for my harsh post, but I feel it was necessary to let you know my intentions for legal action as we have been getting ever-changing deadlines throughout this whole group buy. First for receipt of the ARBs, then our money back, then Paypal disputes.

I'm sorry everything has gone so sour, and have no personal gripes with you...but business is businesss and we as the customer deserve to be given specific deadlines, as you have now, and for those to be adhered to.

[BRADMONTY]

Saturday sounds fair enough to me, shame it all went pear shaped.

Paid into bank though as no paypal account, cheers Brad.

[redeye32uk]

Just a shame it came to talk of legal action to get a firm date for a refund.

[JohnnyC]

Yes toyota do take paypal. they list auctions all the time through ebay.com also i thought paypal was the saftest way to pay.

So who's got the money? Toyota? A Toyota dealership? or some bloke that used to work for Toyota/dealership?

Even if PayPal don't pay up, you should be able to claim it back from someone?

[redeye32uk]

Thanks for the refund Larry, true to your word

[larry93]

Hi,

Right Update.

Paypal are still holding onto the funds.
I will continue to persue this in my own time. In the mean time i will refund everyone through paypal out of my own money. This will either be today or tomorrow.

I will only refund the payment thorugh paypal as this covers me that i sent you the payment back and is quick and easy as i work very late shifts.

I will be in touch with everyone in the group buy through pm once i have refunded your payment, either today or tomorrow.

Larry.