Owning a track car

[Rhys-]

Hi guys,

Myself and a few others are all thinking of chipping in and picking up a Mk1 MR2 as a track car. The only thing putting us off is the legal side of tax/insurance.

Can anyone (looking at Lauren) give me information with regards to what insurance you need for track (if any) and how we can go about it?

As we don't want to spend loads on tax/insurance if we don't have to. Infact am I right in saying the car has to only be MOT worthy to go on a track? Tax/Insurance are not necessary?

This will help us a great deal in deciding what to do.

Thanks,

Rhys

[Dave Goodhand]

If you want a track car - basically if you want to use it on track events etc. I'd imagine it has to be fully road legal - you'll have to check with the tracks and organisers.

As some track cars just have to be scruiteneered. Hence they arrive on the back of a truck, no tax, mot or insurance.

As far as track day insurance goes - you don't personally need it. If you feel like you will need it, there are companies that offer, just be aware of the excess. For example, when I was racing the excess was £1250 on a £8k car. Now in most racing incidents you were most likely to damage about 4/500 worth. So hence you wouldn't claim. Its only if you have a huge accident it benefits you. As I was paying £100 a day for this, + the excess, it didn't seem worth it, when you could just put down a deposit and retain it. Although I gained all the money back when I wrote the car off, just the insurance took ages to pay out!

[Speedy]

Most trackday companies require an MOT to prove that it's safe to drive. You only need insurance & road fund license if you are going to drive it to the track (i.e. not trailer it).

As an aside, it's well worth putting the car through the MOT anyway, since it doesn't cost too much, and they (should) have the proper equipment/experience to check things which it would be hard to check otherwise (i.e. they have lifts and inspection pits).

[Rhys-]

Cheers Dave.

The idea is that we will own a car worth approximatly £400 so insurance really isn't an issue. If we smack the car we get rid of it or repair it depending on the extent of the damage done. I understand it has to be 'road legal' in the sense that it has to be worthy of driving on the road as much as driving on the track. Does this mean I need to take it for an MOT and produce the MOT certificate at events? That's isn't a problem as MOT'ing the car costs hardly anything.

I was more worried about transporting it to/from events. If the car is not insured/taxed how can we transport it? Am I right in saying the only way to do so is to put it on the back of a trailer? (something we won't have). Failing that you need to drive it there which falls back into tax and insurance?

Is it possible to tow the car there with a towbar? I really don't know.

This is why I want to find out about all this stuff before getting the car. Tax/Insurance is the only thing stopping us!

[Speedy]

Theoretically - yes, you should produce the MOT at events, but we've never been asked to... (having said that, there are other mk1s which look in more of a state than ours - looking at Lauren )

Trailering it is the only option if you don't want to insure/RFL it. Depending on your type of license, this may be a problem with weight limits and the D/D1+E (or something) which is not standard anymore.

[Rhys-]

Well we have 1 person in our 5 man team that is covered to drive a trailer. Problem is getting hold of one that we don't have to store and can just pickup and use on the basis of when we need to go to a track.

We'll definatly MOT it, seems to be the way forward but it's just coming down to travelling to/from the event. What a pain in the bum this is turning into!

[Dave Goodhand]

Best bet is to insure it 3rd party only then and tax it, but insure it on a limited mile basis, as its unlikely you will use it as a commuter lol.

I'd imagine (depending on your circumstances) that insuring a car on a limited mileage scheme thats worth 400 will be basically peanuts.

Remember on the track that anyone can drive it, so only the insured will have to drive it to and from the track - unless it gets crashed.

[Rhys-]

So I could insure it 3rd party with limited milage to get it to/from events? Would mean that only I could drive it there/back but that's no big deal really. And obviously it would have to be taxed. But for track use we don't have to have it insured as if we crashed it then we'd scrap it. Is that right?

Does having a 2nd car affect a policy you already have in place? As I currently have one for my Mk2 and don't want that to go up.

Cheers guys

[Dave Goodhand]

I don't know, if you insure it under the same people then its doubtful.

I think you can only have NCB applied to 1 car though. You can get some good deals on insurance for limited mileage cover, so just phone around - some specialists though - find them in Autosport or similar mags.

As if you get it on say 6k a year - you'll still be able to use it on the weekends and such - unless you trailor it to events - in which case it wont need to be insured at all.

As for trailoring it, I would advice this, as it allows you to bring a certain amount of tools and spares. As we know things do go wrong! As say you'll be able to bring a spare set of slicks/wets (if you have them) various tools, brake pads, oil, filters, fuel etc. It all adds up, even Go-Karting we needed a van to fit the kart in and all the various spares filled it right up!

If its going to be used on the road though - ie driven to the tracks, then yes it will need tax, MOT and insurance. If its trailored then I guess it'd just need a MOT.

Track day insurance (unless its your main car, or a valuable one - ie single seater, historic car etc) is a waste of time to be honest, as in theory - you shouldn't crash into anyone else, you'll just be involved in your own accidents usually - as no-one is racing. And it may even be the unwritten rule of the race track that you pay for your own damage to your own car. As when you are at the track you're covered for 3rd parties etc. Say you crash and parts of your car hit a spectator, the track will be covered for this, and I don't think the spectator can claim off you for it being your fault - as they should've read the signs.

[Kelvin]

Interesting point about the MOT, but how do they go about checking road worthiness of pure track day race cars, such as ex- Formula Renault, Formula Ford cars?

Kelvin

[Dave Goodhand]

For race cars they use scruiteneering, this is done before any race day, usually at some ridiculous hour - like 8am to 9:30am. Any car that passes gets a sticker - which enables it to be identified.

If said car is in an accident the sticker is removed and the car cannot enter onto the track until it has been scruiteneered again. This is only at RACE days though. For test days I've just turned up and driven, but presuming the team will field a track worthy car.

As with scruiteneering though they check the rules, regulations and safety standards, overalls, gloves, helmet, nomex underwear etc. Its all professionally run, and usually goes like clockwork

[BenF]

So I could insure it 3rd party with limited milage to get it to/from events? Would mean that only I could drive it there/back but that's no big deal really. And obviously it would have to be taxed. But for track use we don't have to have it insured as if we crashed it then we'd scrap it. Is that right?

Does having a 2nd car affect a policy you already have in place? As I currently have one for my Mk2 and don't want that to go up.

Cheers guys

Rhys,

You're asking about is exactly what I'm doing with my Mk1 - its a trackday car, cost £600 and if I bend it badly I won't be repairing it.

I keep mine road-worthy - MOT'd, taxed and insurance is £160ish through Houghton for 3rd Party F&T (I'm 32, no points). Note you can't share your NCB across between two cars so effectively you'd need a new stand alone policy. You'd only be able to insure a couple of drivers though to drive the car probably under this policy.

On track, no insurance is required.

For the trackday itself, the MK1 seems really light on tyres - if you go to an event with more than 3mm on all tyres I'd have said you'd be OK expecting to be able to drive home unless you're on an airfield spending a lot of time sideways.

The only other thing you'll have to budget for are tyres, brakes (pads and disks) and perhaps occaisional little parts - bushes, fuses, Spark plugs etc

The only downside I've found is that if you have two people sharing a trackday car it really means you each get about 3 20 minute sessions a day - if there were five of you it would mean only one session per person (given a day with 6 sessions) which would only be enough to make you wish you had a lot more time behind the wheel !

[Dave Goodhand]

Good point on the sharing side!

Rys - you should get your hands on a MSA blue book - this will have all the regulations for track cars - and probably someone you can contact. If you're still unsure give the BRSCC a call... although they aren't always the most helpful bunch! plus you have to get them when they are there to answer the phone!

I'll have a hunt for my old one tonight - usually the regs don't change, but if theres anything in there of use I can drop it in the post for you if you like

[Rhys-]

Thanks for all the info guys this is starting to make much more sense now. I'm 25 with 5y ncb and I got a quote for £260 third party, I'll have to re-do it though with 0 ncb and see what happens.

Yeah we are sharing it between 5 which as you say may mean some people don't get a go which is going to be a problem. Ideally airport days may be better as you get much more time on them but you don't really get proper tracks, just ones set out with cones.

We need to go back and see if money wise this is going to be good investment for the time we will get. If I can find the guys at Northweald who orginise all the days then we may be able to get something regular there which will make the days much more viable.

Thanks!

[Dave Goodhand]

But remember you don't have to attend organised track days in a track car.

If its a car specifically used for the track, you'll be able to run in any of their "open testing" sessions - which they have most days throughout the month. As some are for tin tops, and some for single seaters etc. Although you may need a race licence for this, as it may only be for racing cars - like I said earlier best to check around the tracks etc for info on what you need, or the MSA

[BenF]

Thanks for all the info guys this is starting to make much more sense now. I'm 25 with 5y ncb and I got a quote for £260 third party, I'll have to re-do it though with 0 ncb and see what happens.

Yeah we are sharing it between 5 which as you say may mean some people don't get a go which is going to be a problem. Ideally airport days may be better as you get much more time on them but you don't really get proper tracks, just ones set out with cones.

We need to go back and see if money wise this is going to be good investment for the time we will get. If I can find the guys at Northweald who orginise all the days then we may be able to get something regular there which will make the days much more viable.

Thanks!

One thing I'd add - don't be tempted to do more than 20 minutes on track continiously in an hour as you'll probably end up damaging the car / engine / brakes though overheating or extended use. Very few road cars can take continious hard track use.

When I first got the MK1 I did two 20 minute sessions back to back at Bruntingthorpe (MR2004), 20 minutes rest and then another pair oof 20 minute sessions.

In the 3rd session the Mk1 decided to throw a lot of its oil out of the engine onto the exhaust causing a major brown trouser moment when I saw clouds of smoke coming out of the engine bay at I was turning into a corner at 100+

In the end I traced that fault back to a loose cam cover that was letting oil past - but I did for a while think the HG could have gone, which wouldn't have been surprising for the amount of use it was getting.

If a group of you were going to share the car, perhaps one thing to coversider is going away for a weekend trackday eg with Bookatrack to Anglesey where they do Saturdays and Sundays at the circuit there. That way you should all get a couple of sessions in driving the car. You'll want more though

[Speedy]

Interesting point about the MOT, but how do they go about checking road worthiness of pure track day race cars, such as ex- Formula Renault, Formula Ford cars?

Kelvin

Just for completeness - you'll find that some trackday companies are less keen on letting serious racing machinery (such as the above) out on trackdays. Usually there are rules about no slick tyres (or use of slicks where there is roll-over protection), no single-seaters etc. The closing speeds between a road car (even a heavily modified one) and a FF or FR car would just be silly.

Having said that, i've seen Radicals at BaT days, as well as some other peculiar machinery out and about - infact, in the wet, road cars will tend to have an advantage over non-winged race cars .

As for making sure they are safe - as pointed out in above posts, they are scruitneered by qualified people, who check the cars are safe (in our old formula, that normally involved checking that the wheels were done up, and that the steering wheel actually had some input on the front wheels).

BenF makes a good point about time out on track, with our mk1, the limiting factor really is the brakes. They can take about 20mins of punishment in one go, then they need a rest. Can't really comment on tyre wear, because all of the days we have done so far on our new tyres have been in the wet.

[Lauren]

Ok have read about half the posts.

Basically the car should be up to MOT standards, though no checks will be done. Obviously if the car clearly looks like a complete shed and maybe dangerous then i wouldn't let you out the pitlane.

The car does not need to be road legal but then you would need to trailer it if that was the case. No probs with a road legal car, just bung it on a classic policy or whatever works out cheapest.

Also if if keeps breaking down and causing stoppages you will not be very popular with the organisers or the other punters.

Also worth bearing in mind is that you would be stark raving mad to get into a car and drive it at 100mph if it is a total death trap so to some extent we rely on the inherent self-preservation in trackdayers to ensure their car is up to the task.

Track insurance on a MK1 is a waste of time in all honesty as you'll have at least a 1K excess. You are unlikely to write your car off or roll it if you drive at least half sensible.

I have seen cars roll (yes literally) and hit the barriers etc, but it is always when someone is driving way beyond their ability and that is just plain idiocy isn't it. Most spins end up as totally harmless and i would honestly say that if you abide by what i've already said that you are unlikely to come to any grief at all.


Single seaters are not allowed on trackdays at the moment. Any competition car must be up to scrutineering standards but again the onus is on you to be responsible.

Another thing worth mentioning is that if you are sharing a car i wouldn't do it with more than one other unless you are going to rotate trackdays. More than two drivers on a trackday is not very worthwhile tbh as you simply won't get much tracktime. Also with BookaTrack a 3rd driver on an open pitlane day will cost an extra £50. Second drivers are free on our days and on an open pitlane day you will get a decent amount of tracktime. Obviously if you share a car you aren't going to get out as much as if it was just you driving it as you can't drive a car constantly on track as it will brake.

A MK1 makes a great track car. If the car is simply for the purpose of track driving, ditch the interior etc, put some konis and springs on a K&N and a quietish exhaust (noise limits at trackdays are reasonably strict so avoid Janspeed if you want to get on everywhere). Make sure the brakes are up to scratch use stock wheels and tyre sizes with something cheap but predictable - A539s are ideal as they are not too grippy and let you slide the car around a bit.

HTH

Lauren
BookaTrack.com Staff

[Lauren]

Theoretically - yes, you should produce the MOT at events, but we've never been asked to... (having said that, there are other mk1s which look in more of a state than ours - looking at Lauren )

Trailering it is the only option if you don't want to insure/RFL it. Depending on your type of license, this may be a problem with weight limits and the D/D1+E (or something) which is not standard anymore.

GLOL though the condition of my SC bodywise was most certainly in the shed category, mechanically it was A1 (apart from the gearbox in lately) so looks can be deceiving. Still i'm scrapping it this weekend.

[Lauren]

Well we have 1 person in our 5 man team that is covered to drive a trailer. Problem is getting hold of one that we don't have to store and can just pickup and use on the basis of when we need to go to a track.

We'll definatly MOT it, seems to be the way forward but it's just coming down to travelling to/from the event. What a pain in the bum this is turning into!

You could spend say £500 on a trailer. Trailers don't really lose money so you could sell it for what you paid for it at the end of your use IYSWIM. Obviously you need something to tow it.

What do you mean only one of you is covered to drive with a trailer? Anyone can do it though there are some limitations with those that passed their test after 97 weightwise, but an MR2 wouldn't be too heavy anyway.

IMO cost of trailer vs tax and insurance works out pretty similar providing you already have use of a tow barge. If you can borrow a trailer then do that as it works out way cheaper then. This is what Mark and I did with the race car last year.