[All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

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MR2lover

Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by MR2lover »


Makes total sense to talk about mapping while talking about ECU's I'm still hankering after a XLEMG2... Emerald it is though, can't justify the extra cash,.. i'm liking a flush headlight kit as the minute as well..


Steve stop looking at others mate, you and i both know that your not gunna get a better ecu for the price than the emerald3d. Also i heard dave is working on a hand held device like the commandors on powerfc 8)

Come summer mate we can put some flush fit lights on your car. Dont forget your only 14 mins from me :thumleft: plus now got my own MASSIVE garage 8)

i see mate. To be honest i've not been keeping up to date on here just lately so much of the new has simply slipped by me What turbo are you using exactly, GT3071 ?




I went for the ATP version gt3071r which is a proper gt3071 that has the t3 housing and larger trim turbine. Garrett spec there gt3071r to 450bhp at 2bar but ATP e-mailed me and said at 2bar on a 2lt i should be looking at around 550bhp but obviously there is alot more to take in like engines ve capabilties

[/quote]As for my torque curve....you really need to experience it from inside the car


I bet its fun mate at 2bar in mine i can only describe it as painful everything in body feels like it was left behind :lol:
Rogue
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Rogue »

MR2lover wrote:Got to be BEAMS cylinder head :-k


It is indeed! Originally a red top so only the inlet cam is variable - but it is continuously variable and offers a huge amount of adjustment. The research we've done into this engine shows just what a quantum leap Toyota took compared to previous versions. VVTi on the exhaust cam can be added at a later date but we want to mod the turbocharged BEAMS engine in stages and assess each individual change.

Patrick
LJS @ Rogue

Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by LJS @ Rogue »

Rogue wrote:
jonb- wrote:Surely that depends on how much you like Nod at the time? :)


Oh, I'm quite fond of him... :whistle:

Patrick


Ahh! Thanks Boss :D

Nod.
philster_d
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by philster_d »

Woot! Rogue's for the win !

Hey Nods *waves*
datajon
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by datajon »

Just thought i would add this, some folk tend to disregard stuff they know nothing about, or have never used.

Having some experience with motor sport ecu’s and other such devices.. :-$ , decided to test megasquirt, what better car to try it on than a toyota GT4 ST185...turbo, 3sgte power, stock internals though out.

megasquirt ver 1 pcb 2.2, ms-extra high res code..

self tuned 369 bhp & 416 ft/lbs flywheel, dyno..

:lol:

my goal 500 bhp forge engine install..ms control
Jimbob
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Jimbob »

3SGTE power?

Obviously not a CT26? or 20.

Sounds impressive but not if thats on a GT35R or something silly. What fuelling mods is it running?

Jim
Pizza-Tossa

Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Pizza-Tossa »

I find ECU recommendations tend to reflect the tuners favourate (read as most profit margin) brand he pedels. However, ECU's are like Dyno's, some are more accurate than others.
Jimbob
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Jimbob »

I'll ignore the spelling mistakes.

I don't think they are more accurate, they offer more features, and yes that usually comes with cost. There is no such thing as a free dinner. Anyone seriously into tuning knows that.

Tuners push what they are happy with because it works well for them. It is simply not in their interest to badly tune cars on an expensive ECU whilst someone can tune cars well for half the price.
Gary ST165
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Gary ST165 »

greglebon wrote:IMHO, the Megasquirt2 overall beats the lot....! :wink:

You buy the unit, loom etc, for around £300, and if you have a wiring diagram for your engine, you can fit it yourself over a weekend quite easily.

Then you can tune it with a laptop yourself over the next X weeks.... free!

Theres loads of info on the net about it: you can be sure that whatever you have in mind for your car, someone, somewhere in the world will have done it, and have info to pass on to you..

The benefit of going this route is that you learn what each and every sensor actually does, what signals it sends, etc, and you can data
log it all, so if there is a problem it is easy to track down.

The Motecs, etc, all require you to give your car to someone to do for you: all costs dosh, and you're never REALLY sure what they're doing to your pride and joy... :shock:

Seriously, look into it..... its not everyones cup of tea, but you dont need a PhD to do it!



bang on the mark matey . i agree 100%. it beats everything in its price range. shame it only has 12 x 12 tables. further development of the open code should see future upgrades.



datajon wrote:Just thought i would add this, some folk tend to disregard stuff they know nothing about, or have never used.

Having some experience with motor sport ecu’s and other such devices.. :-$ , decided to test megasquirt, what better car to try it on than a toyota GT4 ST185...turbo, 3sgte power, stock internals though out.

megasquirt ver 1 pcb 2.2, ms-extra high res code..

self tuned 369 bhp & 416 ft/lbs flywheel, dyno..

:lol:

my goal 500 bhp forge engine install..ms control



Jimbob wrote:3SGTE power?

Obviously not a CT26? or 20.

Sounds impressive but not if thats on a GT35R or something silly. What fuelling mods is it running?

Jim



I know this car very well 8)

mods: ct26 50mm hybrid @ 1.34 bar, 550cc injectors (101% duty :shock: ) , 50 psi fuel pressure, port matched head. stock pistons, rods and cams etc as fitted to the st185 3sgte.

Image

ms log of the event: (323ft lbs at the 4 wheels 8) )

Image

the run was part of a recent gt4oc rolling road. the figures tally up when compared to the stock runners on that day that put out factory horsepower. I see no reason to doubt the brand new dyno output... Its only a few months old.



To refer back to the query as posted by the thread originator, i think the Megasquirt is more than ample for your Mazda's needs ;) The megasquirt has proved to be a superb value ECU.




regards


Gary ST165
Jimbob
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Jimbob »

Ok

Looking at the dyno.....

What is going on after 5000rpm? That certainly doesn't look either reliable or like a quality map?

Another couple of minor points, the plot says 302ft/lbs, which sounds about right for flywheel rather than wheels, together with a claimed 416ft/lb's at the crank?

The power figure looks like 262bhp in which cause I would say 369 is a little high? 282bhp, almost beleiveable. However based upon some of the figures people have had on here with huge specs in comparison I am somewhat doubting this.

Overall my major concern would be that map after 5000rpm, it is not good. Looks like either very poor boost control or some serious surging issues somewhere.
Gary ST165
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Gary ST165 »

from his datajons post on gt4oc, gt4dc and alltrac.net

i can confirm figure are at the wheels as measured on a Dynojet 244:- 4 Wheel Drive Rolling Road..... i agree fly wheel figures are pie in the sky :lol:

datajon wrote:


Hi.


At long last got the 185rat on the rollers, having used dl1 & accelerometers for gauging power output, when road mapping..

Having recently changed the turbo, due to oil seal failing on the exhaust side, thus filling the exhaust system with oil, 3rd turbo this year.

hopefully the hybrid ct turbo should last for a few months.

ecu megasquirt msextra 029t code, with custom electronics.

Operating boost window 1.6 bar max

Dyno run boost max 1.34 bar


slight misfire 5550 & 6050 , having problems with position sensor, used denso, now using missing tooth setup, similar problems , moving onto optical sensor & wasted spark.

charge temps /power

run (1) 1.32 bar MaT 31.7C 272.06 bhp 323.48 ft/lbs wheels
run (2) 1.34 bar MaT 39.4C 282.24 bhp 302.72 ft/lbs wheels

Engine health poor, smoker…been running 1 to 1.6 bar for almost a year…not bad for stock internals….lol

dyno plot as you can see the missing ignition signal...


injector duty 101 % on 550 running higher fuel pressure, improved fuelling system, with mods….no 5th injector this time, a close call.

not bad 1st run using mega squirt.

Think some larger injectors , wind the boost up a notch 1.6bar hopefully see over 400 bhp on flywheel…

Using ms-extra running on the megasquirt is best buck for bang return..
steve b
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by steve b »

bang for your buck yes, the pistons going bang by the sounds of it,.. I'm kind of aiming for turn key always reliable.

data jon wrote:slight misfire 5550 & 6050
Engine health poor, smoker…
Jimbob
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Jimbob »

Mate theres some serious areas for concern there.

injector duty 101 % on 550 running higher fuel pressure, improved fuelling system, with mods….no 5th injector this time, a close call.


errrm 101% duty is simply not possible? I was under the impression that an injector maxed out at 90%. I may be wroung but I assumed the injector duty was the percentage of time open in a specific time period. Over 90% duty the injector is spending 10% of the time opening and closing and can therefore not remain open any longer. Either way how can an injector run more than open all of the time? Open plus a little bit more? No!

Engine health poor, smoker…been running 1 to 1.6 bar for almost a year…not bad for stock internals….lol


In which case I doubt those figures, the rings would be getting loads of blowby at that boost.

dyno plot as you can see the missing ignition signal...


Who cares about a bit of ignition anyway, its not important :shock:

slight misfire 5550 & 6050 , having problems with position sensor, used denso, now using missing tooth setup, similar problems , moving onto optical sensor & wasted spark.


Perfect a misfire right before peak power, ideal 8-[

Having recently changed the turbo, due to oil seal failing on the exhaust side, thus filling the exhaust system with oil, 3rd turbo this year.


Three turbo's in one year? £1500+ oh what a coincidence extra money for a decent ECU and MAP

I still have problems with 1.34bar on a hybrid CT26 making 280WHP? Thats GT28RS teritory at similar boost.

Anyways...................
datajon
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by datajon »

Hi Mate...

Sorry for the thread highjack. Again.


just to clear a few things up.

Now Starting with the following quotes, excuse my spelling…

Three turbo's in one year? £1500+ oh what a coincidence extra money for a decent ECU and MAP


Not at all, …all turbocharger units second-hand pass on’s from client upgrades, or just requiring a few repairs etc, so total costs well under £300.00 for 18 months of up to 1.4 bar, who’s laughing the most…

Now. as I said before on OC, this was a project, not a show car.., R&D nothing more , nothing les, I am not into body work cosmetic bling, but true race enhancements.

Who cares about a bit of ignition anyway, its not important :shock:


umm, I think you might need to review your understanding I see a joke..… :wink:


£1500+ oh what a coincidence extra money for a decent ECU and MAP


so what is it you are trying to say :lol: : the meagsquirt ecu is rubbish, map is completely wrong, umm can you back this up with you extensive knowledge...? please.

firstly the map was 1hr in the making. okay having mapped the thing for the last 1 ½ years you tend to get understanding , what da engine requirements are, it was in pieces until the morning of the dyno, secondly, its not that bad, does not DET, under heavy boost, best of all it made 283 bhp on 4 wheel drive Celica two runs, within a few horses of each other, so please explain that one...its must be out by miles don’t you think, or is this merely your way in saying nice one, well done, that’s not bad for a £150 diy ecu…and self tuned…


what makes it even more funny, you based your judgement, with almost next to no information to hand, this explains much from what i can understand, what is the level or your understanding, you build stuff, modified anything, “qjdynamics”, exhaust, bit of body work bling, every built any proper race cars…

back to the engine in question, it did make the power as claimed, i am not in the habit of bullsh*tting.

As for accuracy of the dyno, speak to Janspeed Salisbury, maybe you know more about their dynojet , than them, :) after all its not as if they have much experience in this department.. built factory spec touring cars from the ground up, getting over 300 bhp from 2ltr na some 12 yrs + ago, what sort of achievements have you made...looks like you struggling to make any horsepower …lol


Perfect a misfire right before peak power, ideal 8-[


well in fact it pulled over 6000, but losing position signal on route, according to the datalog plot.. can post the log, see for yourself, that’s if you can understand the telemetry data... :)

misfire did indeed cost some power, but with 100% duty , increasing AFR’s was probably for the best to cut spark

Torque to bhp cross over rpm is 5252 rpm, as you can see it made it past this point, so the reading of power to rollers is accurate enough for me, as well as many others who have used them that day and before..


as for duty cycle, i would not recommend to run more than 90% duty for a good service life from injectors, pushing boundary levels sometimes requires that extra distance. I know many motor sport club racers, that run close to the wind.


MS “ megasquirt”, works duty reading, by the amount of time it holds open injector transistor junction, over each ignition cycle, as the time frame decreases from rpm increase, thus it calculates the figure of 101.3% duty. Its basically 100%….even my DL1 & LM1 display matching data, you never know ? maybe its all wrong ..LoL, which I very much doubt.

If you have problems in believing this, then have a look at this link, it’s a close up of the screen capture from ms logs.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f290/ ... -duty1.jpg


Image

having had a few problems with dizzy signal , variable relutor setup, its not very reliable, being its an ac generator, its old and very crude, the TTE, and other like minded used optical dizzy setup, from my experience this seem the way, with wasted spark.

With this in place , no further problems should be present, the dyno plot, looks messy, but that’s expected from the above problems, the fact is it was making the power, if the 550cc injectors running 50 psi fuel rail pressure, and the afr’s 12:1 its going to produce some amount of power from the fuel intake, do the maths see what I mean..

Only a short period of time spent that morning mapping, its not the best I have done, must admit, but, hay its power output more than makes up for it, if you have details of your comments, “, with descriptive remarks, I would be more than happy to receive either via pm, or maybe start another thread.

Engine health poor, smoker…been running 1 to 1.6 bar for almost a year…not bad for stock internals….lol


yes after spitting out a head gasket this week, under 1.4 bar of use, I decided to strip engine down for full inspection & service, the main reason why it smoked, was down to the bores being worn oval, 86.01mm / 86.10mm, ring ends tend to reside in this area, thus causing a little smoke..

very little blow past, displayed from pistons, , but then again the stock tol are pretty tight on piston to bore, probably why so many fail before hand.

Link to the pistons, as you can see they are all in one piece.., probably luck that ignition table was accurately setup, ..lol


Engine health poor, smoker…been running 1 to 1.6 bar for almost a year…not bad for stock internals….lol

In which case I doubt those figures, the rings would be getting loads of blowby at that boost.



A few snaps of the pistons from this engine afterwards, that’s running a substandard ecu, with a poorly tuned map, that still produced 283 bhp on 4 wheel drive..ummm

Image
Image
Image
Image

thes have been clean for further inspection

Image
Image
Image
Image



as you can see they look pretty good form the experience..

as for the pistons going bang, well in-fact “mate” they are near as good as the day I got the engine, which sustained most of its det & damage from burnt out valves using stock ecu, with as fudging box,............ after a 18months of use from 1bar to 1.5 bar...under megasquirt control, they have not decade much further, is that luck, or understanding on my part.. [-X


as for power, speak to Jan speed Salisbury, maybe you know more, than them…lol after all they built factory spec touring cars, making the levels of tune seen around some places look , well flintstone ‘ish…

i got 280 bhp flywheel from a stock ct26 a year ago, simply down to tune of engine and the way its mapped.



i don't mean to be offensive, rant over, but if you stoke the fire, then expect flames...in return

Merry Christmas..

DJ
Jimbob
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Jimbob »

Sorry mate, but you know absolutely Jack about QJD. Have you purchased any products from us? I doubt it as we haven't sold anything commercially for around 1 year, and I know exactly who has purchased from us in the past.

The car is mine, not QJD's, the bodywork work is my doing and the exhaust is made by QJD, as will be the manifolds, boot mount IC, piping etc.

The calibre of QJD is not in question here as as far as I am aware I didn't push any of our products or services?

I don't need to have built race cars mate, any fool knows a lack of any ignition signal is bad.

Quote:
Who cares about a bit of ignition anyway, its not important


umm, I think you might need to review your understanding I see a joke..…


Errrm, this was a Joke :-k

Well my car should be mapped in January, seeing as its using a real turbo, not a secondhand one and suffers less transmission loss........................................


See you at the pod :mrgreen:
Gary ST165
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Gary ST165 »

Jimbob wrote:

I don't need to have built race cars mate, any fool knows a lack of any ignition signal is bad.


indeed JimBob you have hit the nail on the head.

I hope you can appreciate the major benefits of megasquirt is that it allows the end user to log and understand where faults arise. In datajons case it useful to know the limits of the stock toyota ignition set up before implementing improvements. (>>> wasted spark etc)

For a budget diy kit, the megasquirt empowers the end user with this knowledge. the code is open source. those with the inclination or knowledge can write their own software to develope the control systems further. This feature is absent from alternative ECU's as far as i am aware....

My point is, the ECU currently has all the bells and whistles of the more expensive ECU's, but is currently only let down by the resolution of the ignition and fuel tables. However, there are many techies worldwide forming a huge megasquirt community that relish the challenge of writing / improvong the functionality of the software and making it available to all.

I sense there is a feeling of doubt towards the Megasquirt amongst the more established tuners/retailers and many owners. For reasons known to themselves, they choose to disregard a product that they have not experimented with. Some may see the recent rolling road results as a threat? >> For sure, if developement of the code is made freely available to all, it will indeed infringe on tuners sales and have an impact on the forum dyno tables /drag slips. Time will tell as forum users become aware. I believe that more and more owners will choose to DIY tune. For those that wish to go down this route, they are able to access a product at a fraction of the cost of the more established brands.... and enjoy having fun learning about mapping their own vehicles.

i think this forum member has a very valid point:

greglebon wrote:
The Motecs, etc, all require you to give your car to someone to do for you: all costs dosh, and you're never REALLY sure what they're doing to your pride and joy... :shock:

Seriously, look into it..... its not everyones cup of tea, but you dont need a PhD to do it!


kind regards

Gary ST165.
Gary ST165
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Gary ST165 »

Jimbob wrote: Well my car should be mapped in January, seeing as its using a real turbo, not a secondhand one and suffers less transmission loss........................................


whatever :D good luck . i hope the mapping and new "real" turbo give the performance gains you expect £££ [-o<

p.s the recent posts on this thread were never about mr2 vs gt-four (transmission losses). As forum users we alll have the same quest to further the knowledge base regarding tunning with aftermarket ECU's, and for some that means getting the most out of the CT series turbo and 3sgte on budget.
steve b
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by steve b »

well, it came to the weekend my car was going in for the new Emerald K3,... and after it being booked for 3 months, me re-taxing & insuring the car I phoned up to say "see you saturday" and I got, "we're too busy can't fit you in for a couple of weeks" :neutral: not what you expect when you've booked something..

So I phoned up LINK in NZ and had a chat, how helpful! absolute fantastic service, ordered a LEMG3+mounting hardware+ MX5 specific plug & play loom+ AIT + boost control module + 3 day international delivery total cost of £620 :D

You guys will also be interested to know they do a plug & play loom for the MR2 as well available for only £70
mark239
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by mark239 »

whats wrong with the megasquirt? Just finished fitting it to an Mi16 engine here in one of our BX 16 valves, and have it running well - needs fine tuned on a rr now.

The amount of snobbery I have had to suffer from the so called tuning 'experts' here in Northern Ireland has been ridiculous.

here is a picture of the 'beta' install almost finished, with jenveys. Wiring etc is obviously to be tidied up.

I have learned a great deal from running this kit - it gives you a better understanding of whats going on, as you have to DIY. I have always run webers before, but the MS gives me confidence now to TB just about everything!

Image
Kenny-Boost
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Re: [All] [Generic] Which ECU would you choose from the list below and why?

Post by Kenny-Boost »

i think a lot of people are hung up on brand name ECU's on here - personally i'm not fussed i've stuck with my Apex'i FC and went ahead and purchased a datalogit and i'm quite happy to tinker with it and learn how it works at the weekends and stuff - with me finishing university i'm a little busy to get my head right into it at the moment but i will in june :)

i've seen a few megasquirt cars mostly N/A's and the owners seem happy enough its certainly a clever idea.

Folk talk about the motec and link and autronic ECU's - maybe i'm outta my depth here but why do i never hear anyone talking about DTA?

Fastest 3S car i've ever been in runs a DTA ECU lol
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