4AGE budget cam install and tuning

[cartledge_uk]

Id think that'd be at the wheels, as mine is putting out 130.6 with standard cams at the fly.

On which dyno? calibrated by? drivetrain loss calculations? air temp? Any figure 'at the fly' is nothing more than a guess unless it has been on an engine dyno.

Its the the hub/wheel measurement thats accurate, because that is what is measured, and even then, that can be fixed by tyre pressures.


I'm just really saying here that dynos should be taken with a pinch of salt as results on different dynos will vary widely, your 130, could well be 140, or 120

[Lauren]

It could be at the wheels given your engine spec. Lauren:

http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/tuned-4a ... ge+results

Was definitiely at the flywheel. To be fair it looks like the cams have added 10bhp over stock, kind of what you'd expect for fairly mild cams. No idea if the exhaust manifold adds anything.

This seems to be in line with people's results on James's forum. Vashy for example made 133bhp.

[pk_090]

are you pleased with the results Lauren? From personal experience my car is never ever going anywhere near TDI north.
Alex

[PW@Woodsport]

I must admit Alex i raised an eyebrow over a comment they made about Laurens car, it smacked of someone that clearly didn't know what he was talking about.

I should add i have no personal experience or prior knowledge of TDI north.

[Lauren]

are you pleased with the results Lauren? From personal experience my car is never ever going anywhere near TDI north.
Alex

Yes, I'm happy, car is fueling fine. Shame about the modded ECU not offering anything, but the important thing is the car is running alright with the stock ECU and the cams.

At the end of the day I've got a healthy engine that makes more than stock power and this is on a car that is 26 years old, so no complaints there!

Don't forget I only put my car on the rollers at TDI North, they didn't do anything to the car.

[pk_090]

I must admit Alex i raised an eyebrow over a comment they made about Laurens car, it smacked of someone that clearly didn't know what he was talking about.

I should add i have no personal experience or prior knowledge of TDI north.

I know a lad that works there, and with TDI North being a prominent Honda tuner and specialist i wasn't expecting a call from him when he was doing a cambelt change on his civic. They guy in question is a complete retard, it took him near on 8 hours to fabricate seat mounts to mount a bucket seat a remedial chore which would have taken any none retard a few hours to do and during so burned out many drill bits and broke 2 angle grinder discs in the process. Also when doing the cambelt change he decided to take his air con out. He said "what happens if i vent the gas into the air" "you die" was the reply sarcasticaly. To which he proceded to vent the gas as i was running away from the car like a little girl. Going back to the cambelt. He though a casting mark on the block was the timing mark on the bottom pulley, So when he came to start the engine, it would turn over, not start and then fire the engine back in opposite direction...He couldnt figure it out and then decided to blame and annoy use when giving him suggestions as to how to fix. Eventually at 3 oclock in the morning we got fed up and did it for him.
I guess this is not a gripe at TDI themselves and what goes on out of TDI north work hours people wouldnt really care about, but if you give a monkey a spanner, you could be waiting a while for the job to be done.
Alex

Edit: All that matters really Lauren is that your happy with the result which you have said you are so thats all good!

[Lauren]

To be fair Alex, I only went there for a dyno run, they aren't going to be working on my car.

Got the graphs (tis a PDF so no idea how to upload it) but figures:

Stock ECU:
132.2bhp @7156rpm 107mph

105.8lb/ft @5191rpm

Modded ECU:

132.6bhp @7390rpm 111mph

102.4lb/ft @5250rpm

Didn't get a WHP figure for those that asked.

Reckon these outputs at these revs are what you'd expect for the cams.

[Lauren]

Note, Modded and Stock Overlaid.

Stock is solid line I think(!)

EDIT: Stock ECU solid line. Modded is dotted.

[/b]

[kaiowas]

What on earth is going on with that dyno above 5500rpm? The torque measurement (and thus power calculation) is all over the place. Was everyone's graph like that or just yours?

If that's a consistent feature of everyone's graphs I'm not sure I'd be putting much stock in those figures.

[tottacrolla]

Lauren have you played around with the cam timing at all ?
My engine with 266/260 cams was transformed by adjusting the cam timing and fitting a Cusco ecu
Your modded ecu may have a different ignition timing maps to the standard ecu and whilst the stock ecu can run an engine with 264 cams it may well not be optimum.

[Lauren]

What on earth is going on with that dyno above 5500rpm? The torque measurement (and thus power calculation) is all over the place. Was everyone's graph like that or just yours?

No idea. I think it was just me that suffered that. What could it be slip on the rollers? A misfire? I was the only one to use the rear rollers (only RWD car there).

Totta: I haven't messed around withe cam timing. From what I recall it is retarded 4 degrees on inlet and 3 on the exhaust or something like that.

Mark also thinks an ECU will help.

It'll all have to wait till somewhere in next year though, as I've spent all my money for this year! Undoubtedly as you say I think it could be improved upon, but it's about okay fueling wise and that'll do for the moment.

I will at a later date look into aftermarket ECU options. What is in fashion at the moment in regard to ECU's?

Years ago it was the Dastek.

[tottacrolla]

Nice to know the fueling is good and ''safe'' for the engine, worth a trip to the rollers just for that.
ECU's ?
When the time comes Omex will be my choice as they do a complete
throttle body kit for the 4AGE

[Lauren]

Keep me posted on the ITB's, sounds interesting.

And, yes for the fueling, that was my main reason for going.

I can't help thinking, though if I was going to build up a 16v it would make a lot of sense to start with a small port.

[PW@Woodsport]

Forget the ITB's, just slap a Skyline turbocharger on it, you're fuelling is already correct for that, apparently

Have to say i've never seen a dyno graph go all fuzzy like that over 5500rpm, i'd question the accuracy of that and have it done again somewhere else just to be sure.

[Lauren]

LOL!

Tbh I'm not going to worry about rushing around to get it done somewhere else. It'll be fine.

No idea though about why the graph looks like that though.

[pk_090]

I agree never seen a dyno graph like that, then again it was a TDI north a Honda specialist so the probably went into a coma when it experienced torque.
Alex

[Lauren]

LOL, Alex I think any Type-R will produce more torque than my car and besides VTEC engines do produce good torque. They just produce stonking amounts of horsepower which makes the torque look low when it isn't really. Best of both worlds and all that.

Steve H suggested that it may be that the graph wasn't 'smoothed' out.

[pk_090]

Yeah i know Lauren Cracking engines they really are and i love them, the whole concept of Vtec is something i have to play with at some point. Just the fact that 130hp off vtec turns into 200 ish on vtec, its mental!
Alex

[Lauren]

Mental indeed, but makes for a very tractable fairly anodyne engine pootling around town, then turns into a race engine when you floor it! Got to love it really!

[vashy]

right, enough about hondas on my 4age tuning thread LOL

Lauren, your top end is about the same as mine, so the final power figure is about the same, but you have a peak of torque in the mid range that I don't have! I wonder if that's where the 4-1 comes in..? if so, you should be able to rotate your exhaust pulley to move it up and down.

so the rev limit is lower on AE86 ECU's then..? I wonder if you can fit an MR2 ECU to raise the rev limit

tottacrolla - I was just wondering how far you could go on the stock ECU.... awesome link!