IMOC Super Lap Battle

Discussion and technical advice the SW20 MR2. 3S-GTE, 3S-GE, 3S-FE etc
Anything and everything to do with maintenance, modifications and electrical is in here for the Mk2.

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JasonB
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Location: Llantrisant, South Wales

Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by JasonB »

really like the idea of this (the trackday not the GT attack).
I've never been on a track in my car and I would be well up for it. Llandow is about 25 mins from my place but I'd understand if something in the Midlands was better as it's central to more people.

Like people have said I'm sure it would be enjoyable even if you weren't taking part.

Hope it comes about.

JB
tonigmr2
IMOC Committee
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by tonigmr2 »

If you've not done a track day the LLandlow thing would be perfect for you! Once you've done that you'll want more. :wink:

Neil - great, I suspect you'll be hard to beat. :)
T
Bender Unit
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by Bender Unit »

Gah - sorry to moan guys, if you want to chat GT attack and the regulations can you do it in another thread.

Some people may read all this chat about tire regulations and roll cages and loose interest.

Mods could you trim the posts down and pop the GT attack ones in another thread.
Bender Unit
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by Bender Unit »

How about this for classes and some regs for the event?

NA Class
Applies to any MR2 that is normally aspirated regardless of mark
Engine modifications are unlimited - however the modification cannot change the engines aspiration
Nitrous is allowed
Chassis modifications are unlimited
No restriction on bodywork alterations
Tyres must be road legal, off the shelf rubber, no slicks or cut slicks are allowed
All cars must have a valid MOT and be road legal
All cars must run on petrol from a petrol station - no race fuels

Turbo Class
Applies to any MR2 that has forced induction regardless of mark - Includes SC and TC engines
Engine modifications are unlimited
Nitrous is allowed
Chassis modifications are unlimited
No restriction on bodywork alterations
Tyres must be road legal, off the shelf rubber, no slicks or cut slicks are allowed
All cars must have a valid MOT and be road legal
All cars must run on petrol from a petrol station - no race fuels

Garage Class
Applies to any garage owned car regardless of aspiration and mark
Engine modifications are unlimited
Nitrous is allowed
Chassis modifications are unlimited
No restriction on bodywork alterations
Tyres must be road legal, off the shelf rubber, no slicks or cut slicks are allowed
All cars must have a valid MOT and be road legal
All cars must run on petrol from a petrol station - no race fuels

Guest Class
Applies to any IMOC member car that isn't an MR2 regardless of aspiration
Engine modifications are unlimited
Nitrous is allowed
Chassis modifications are unlimited
No restriction on bodywork alterations
Tyres must be road legal, off the shelf rubber, no slicks or cut slicks are allowed
All cars must have a valid MOT and be road legal
All cars must run on petrol from a petrol station - no race fuels


All cars will be quickly inspected prior to being allowed to race to ensure they are in the correct category.

Cars deemed to be unsafe - bald tires, shagged brakes, loose bodywork, dropping fluids won't be allowed to take part.

Anyone thought or found to be breaking these rules - and I am sure there will be some who may try, won't be allowed to take part and no refund will be given. No one likes a cheater!


These classes are designed to keep racing as close as possible within each class and to keep things fair. It also allows inter class comparison, so it can settle the old Mk1 v's Mk2, Turbo v's Na debates. It also wouldn't be fair to allow private entries to go up against garage entries that are able to operate on a larger budget, therefore these entries have their own class to compete in.


I want the focus of the event to be on IMOC members and their cars, and not garages and tuning companies. I see this event as being the opposite of TOTB and GT Attack which are just tuner showcases where they can advertise their wares.


Guest entries will be restricted to existing IMOC club members that don't have an MR2 but are established members of the club. This restriction is in place to prevent non club members crashing the party, and people signing up just to take part. This event is for the IMOC not other car groups that can't be ar$ed to arrange their own event.


Views?
scotiamr2t
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by scotiamr2t »

A big =D> =D> =D> =D> to that man! :D

sounds fantastic to me mate. will allow us to compare alll mk's and engine variations nice and easily. also evens the playing field a bit as im sure some folks prob couldn't afford to run race fuel and slicks. i would run that combo if i was allowed, but the regs u have came up with would forbid this allowing everyone to compete under the same circumstances.

the regs and classes get a :thumleft: from me

what would the suspected cost for such an event be? as to enter 1 race in the GT attack is £120. I would gladly pay that for an event along the lines you are talking
jonno
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by jonno »

So my 3.0 V6 can run in the N/A class? \:D/

Bring it on :)
Forever Feels Like Home, Sitting All Alone Inside Your Head...
jonb-
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by jonb- »

jonno wrote:So my 3.0 V6 can run in the N/A class? \:D/

Bring it on :)


*gets Neils coat*
anna
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by anna »

Bender Unit wrote:How about this for classes and some regs for the event?

NA Class
Applies to any MR2 that is normally aspirated regardless of mark
Engine modifications are unlimited - however the modification cannot change the engines aspiration
Nitrous is allowed
Chassis modifications are unlimited
No restriction on bodywork alterations
Tyres must be road legal, off the shelf rubber, no slicks or cut slicks are allowed
All cars must have a valid MOT and be road legal
All cars must run on petrol from a petrol station - no race fuels

Turbo Class
Applies to any MR2 that has forced induction regardless of mark - Includes SC and TC engines
Engine modifications are unlimited
Nitrous is allowed
Chassis modifications are unlimited
No restriction on bodywork alterations
Tyres must be road legal, off the shelf rubber, no slicks or cut slicks are allowed
All cars must have a valid MOT and be road legal
All cars must run on petrol from a petrol station - no race fuels

Garage Class
Applies to any garage owned car regardless of aspiration and mark
Engine modifications are unlimited
Nitrous is allowed
Chassis modifications are unlimited
No restriction on bodywork alterations
Tyres must be road legal, off the shelf rubber, no slicks or cut slicks are allowed
All cars must have a valid MOT and be road legal
All cars must run on petrol from a petrol station - no race fuels

Guest Class
Applies to any IMOC member car that isn't an MR2 regardless of aspiration
Engine modifications are unlimited
Nitrous is allowed
Chassis modifications are unlimited
No restriction on bodywork alterations
Tyres must be road legal, off the shelf rubber, no slicks or cut slicks are allowed
All cars must have a valid MOT and be road legal
All cars must run on petrol from a petrol station - no race fuels


All cars will be quickly inspected prior to being allowed to race to ensure they are in the correct category.

Cars deemed to be unsafe - bald tires, shagged brakes, loose bodywork, dropping fluids won't be allowed to take part.

Anyone thought or found to be breaking these rules - and I am sure there will be some who may try, won't be allowed to take part and no refund will be given. No one likes a cheater!


These classes are designed to keep racing as close as possible within each class and to keep things fair. It also allows inter class comparison, so it can settle the old Mk1 v's Mk2, Turbo v's Na debates. It also wouldn't be fair to allow private entries to go up against garage entries that are able to operate on a larger budget, therefore these entries have their own class to compete in.


I want the focus of the event to be on IMOC members and their cars, and not garages and tuning companies. I see this event as being the opposite of TOTB and GT Attack which are just tuner showcases where they can advertise their wares.


Guest entries will be restricted to existing IMOC club members that don't have an MR2 but are established members of the club. This restriction is in place to prevent non club members crashing the party, and people signing up just to take part. This event is for the IMOC not other car groups that can't be ar$ed to arrange their own event.


Views?


hmmm... I think it might be worth having individual mk winners, and then N/A turbo winners?

Also, would you have a problem with other MR2 clubs joining in? I very much envisaged inviting 'teams' from MR2ROC, mk1club, and twobrutal if they are up for it... :-k

Are you going to have a limit on the number of guest cars?
What about having teams? and allowing 1 or 2 guest cars per team or sommit...
Or is it individuals only?
anna
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by anna »

Rogue
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by Rogue »

My thoughts:

Invitation Class - Non MR2s should only be allowed to enter if there are places to spare, we are an MR2 club after all.

Tuner Class - No point in having this class, as I don't think the event will attract more than a couple of entries. Being a tuner does not automatically mean that you have more funds available to tune a car - some of my customers have spent more money on their cars than I earn in a year! There's no fun in driving around in your own class and winning every race by default... I did that last year in the MR2 Challenge Series.

Nitrous Oxide should come under the same criteria as race fuel and shouldn't be allowed. As a consumable "power adder" race fuel would work in all cars simply by pouring it into the petrol tank. Those with aftermarket ECU's would be able to make better advantage of it than those without, but at least it doesn't require several hundred pounds worth of equipment adding to the car. Seems odd to ban something that everyone could make use of and yet allow something that works in a similar way but not everyone will want to install.

I think you may want to break scoring down by indivual mk as well, otherwise the mk2s will always win in each class - contriversial I know, but just look at the MR2 Challenge Series.

I don't think you'll find people building cars specifically for this event, but using their own everyday cars in a competitive environment.

Patrick
DoM

Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by DoM »

Sounds cool, I'd come and watch! :)
Bender Unit
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by Bender Unit »

hmmm... I think it might be worth having individual mk winners, and then N/A turbo winners?


The classes will hopefully mean even performance across the Mk's.

It wouldnt be fair to have a GE powered mk2 going up against a GTE powered mk2 - or a GTE swapped mk1 going up against 4AGE engined mk1's.

It also mixes it up a little, how does a GTE Mk1 compared to a tuned Mk2 turbo? How does a NA mk2 compare to a Mk1?

Also, would you have a problem with other MR2 clubs joining in? I very much envisaged inviting 'teams' from MR2ROC, mk1club, and twobrutal if they are up for it...


Not at all, the more the merrier. Numbers on the day would be the biggest consideration. But then if we can secure exclusive use of a track for this then we could have a big Mr2 social event as well as the racing. There is enough Mr2 owners to have something like this. People just need to get behind it.

Are you going to have a limit on the number of guest cars?


I think there is a small amount of IMOC members that dont have Mr2's so I think thats taken care of, and I suspect a few of those wont want to even take part. We may need to consider limiting numbers just so the world and his wife dont decide to join in.

What about having teams? and allowing 1 or 2 guest cars per team or sommit...Or is it individuals only?


Lets keep this as an individuals only event.
Bender Unit
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by Bender Unit »

Invitation Class - Non MR2s should only be allowed to enter if there are places to spare, we are an MR2 club after all.


We are an Mr2 club, but then there are people who have contributed a good deal towards the IMOC who don’t necessarily own an MR2 at the moment. It’s only fair that these people can take part on the back of this event and also have a bit of fun. Maybe we limit the number of spaces. I am definitely taking part or I will post dog poo through everyone’s letter boxes! :mrgreen:

Tuner Class - No point in having this class, as I don't think the event will attract more than a couple of entries. Being a tuner does not automatically mean that you have more funds available to tune a car - some of my customers have spent more money on their cars than I earn in a year! There's no fun in driving around in your own class and winning every race by default... I did that last year in the MR2 Challenge Series.


Sorry totally disagree my point is that I see this event is an alternative to GT Attack and TOTB. I want people to compete on a level pegging, its grass roots, cheap, affordable competitive fun. The principle of the event is it’s geared to the individual owner, not the tuning garage like other events (TOTB and GT Attack). A garage entry has a huge advantage over the individual entrant, you have access to facilities, expertise and funds that the individual owner doesn’t.

If there is not enough interest in a separate garage class then maybe we leave it out and get more individual entries taking part :?:

Nitrous Oxide should come under the same criteria as race fuel and shouldn't be allowed. As a consumable "power adder" race fuel would work in all cars simply by pouring it into the petrol tank.


Why, it’s a valid power adder, which is accessible to everyone as a form of adding power. It’s also considerably more mainstream than race gas. It has limited use on a circuit and is only a temporary power adder. There maybe some who use it but it isn’t a definite advantage.

Race fuel on the other hand is not readily available. For pretty much the same reason Slicks shouldn’t be used as they are beyond the reach of most people and it starts making the competition very specialised.

Seems odd to ban something that everyone could make use of and yet allow something that works in a similar way but not everyone will want to install. Those with aftermarket ECU's would be able to make better advantage of it than those without, but at least it doesn't require several hundred pounds worth of equipment adding to the car.


But it would require several hundred pounds worth of mapping and dyno sessions to make the most of it?

Seriously mate the cost argument doesn’t fly that’s like saying everyone must use stock suspension as uprated parts are expensive. Race gas isn’t something that everyone can make use off. Even if they can sling it in their tank, it won’t have any benefit unless the car is mapped for it. :-k

If people don’t want to install a nitrous system fine, there are some people who wont want to fit a bigger turbo or do suspension work to their car, so do we ban all those that do?:?:

I think you may want to break scoring down by indivual mk as well, otherwise the mk2s will always win in each class - contriversial I know, but just look at the MR2 Challenge Series.


So if GE power Mk2’s run against GTE powered Mk2’s that’s fairer? Or a GTE power Mk1 against a 4AGE powered Mk1? It’s better to split cars by performance rather than Mk. Also makes it more interesting to mix it up and draw comparisons across Mk. 8)

Mk2’s may beat the Mk1’s in the Mr2 challenge series, but then this is the challenge series so there aren’t the same restrictions in place. People can do pretty much what they want to their car as long as it doesn’t change the aspiration or involve race fuel or slicks. Also circuit choice will be so that it doesn’t benefit any particular car. :wink:

I don't think you'll find people building cars specifically for this event, but using their own everyday cars in a competitive environment.

Oh I dunno, if only I could find a cheap mk2 ....... :mrgreen:

Cheers

James
anna
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by anna »

James - before getting into the nitty gritty in too much detail, I propose we set up a forum for you/committee/mods/other clubs to contribute to? (we have had some interest from other clubs)

I'll go and ask someone to do that and to give you permission to view it.
Rogue
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by Rogue »

Well, let me put it this way... If I enter a Rogue Motorsport car, then the best that's available to me is a normally aspirated MR2 Challenge car. If I enter as a private individual then the best car that will be available to me (assuming I ever find the time to finish it) will be a 400bhp+ mk3 MR2.

One's a "tuner" car, the other's a private car. How do you define a "tuner" entry?

Race fuel tuning can be as simply as winding the timing forward. It has more anti-knock agents and is slower burning. I think the difference would suprise you! You can buy C16 Race fuel over the internet - even Envy stock it! That said, I'm not making a case for the use of race fuel, I don't think it should be allowed at all. I just personally would prefer not to see Nitrous allowed.

With regards to the classes, I don't think grouping mk1 superchargers with mk2 turbos is going to be fair. A sorted mk1sc (bigger pulley, intercooling, brakes, sticky rubber, coilovers etc) around Brands ran only two seconds a lap quicker than a mk2na with air filter / exhaust, non adjustable suspension and AO22 rubber. In all three classes - mk1, mk2 and mk3 I strongly suspect it'll be the 3SGTE engined cars that walk away with it.

I'm not suggesting you limit it only by mk, but also break that down to n/a and forced induction.

Patrick
System-G
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Re: IMOC Super Lap Battle

Post by System-G »

Missed this thread as I don't usually have time to go through all sections on the forum.

Speedy pointed me in the direction.

Naturally Jo and I would be up for this 8) Depending on casts, dates etc... We would probably bring the track car and the SC.
85 MK1 MR2 Track N/Ail | 99 528i SE Touring | 01 Mandarin VX220
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