M3

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mr2nut123
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Re: M3

Post by mr2nut123 »

matt_mr2t wrote:I'd say out of the factory at the times of building the M3 has always been an overall better car than a standard MR2. And note, I said out of the factory. So that doesnt include a standard M3 Vs a tuned tubby.

E30 M3 came out when the Mk1 MR2 was about.
E36 M3 came out when the Mk2 was about (or there abouts)
E46 while the mk2 was still about
Latest one the Mk3 had been and gone.


This could go on forever. It's swings and roundabouts.

MR2 was cheaper
M3 was more luxury

MR2 looks better
M3 had a bit more power


As far as reliability is concerned, they're both great. But as far as driving pleasure, the tubby wins every time. No flappy pedal for starters and having driven a few M3s new and old, the power delivery was dissapointing. Can't comment on the V8 M3 though.
Burger
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Re: M3

Post by Burger »

mr2nut123 wrote: But as far as driving pleasure, the tubby wins every time. No flappy pedal for starters and having driven a few M3s new and old, the power delivery was dissapointing. Can't comment on the V8 M3 though.


Thats a matter of opinion too, everyone taste's differ, I wonder what the BM boys think of the "2"'s...

Maybe not alot :lol:
matt_mr2t
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Re: M3

Post by matt_mr2t »

mr2nut123 wrote:
matt_mr2t wrote:I'd say out of the factory at the times of building the M3 has always been an overall better car than a standard MR2. And note, I said out of the factory. So that doesnt include a standard M3 Vs a tuned tubby.

E30 M3 came out when the Mk1 MR2 was about.
E36 M3 came out when the Mk2 was about (or there abouts)
E46 while the mk2 was still about
Latest one the Mk3 had been and gone.


This could go on forever. It's swings and roundabouts.

MR2 was cheaper
M3 was more luxury

MR2 looks better
M3 had a bit more power A bit more? Even the lowest was 280bhp, the Evo model was 321bhp

As far as reliability is concerned, they're both great. But as far as driving pleasure, the tubby wins every time. No flappy pedal for starters and having driven a few M3s new and old, the power delivery was dissapointing. Can't comment on the V8 M3 though.


I'll give it to you on price, I would hazzard a guess at an M3 costing at least double what an MR2 has over the generations.

But you get what you pay for. There has always been a quality about the M3's that despite being well made, the Mr2's havent had. Quality isnt just about being well made, it's also what they're made of and the way they're made.
Burger
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Re: M3

Post by Burger »

matt_mr2t wrote: There has always been a quality about the M3's that despite being well made, the Mr2's havent had. Quality isnt just about being well made, it's also what they're made of and the way they're made.



+1
mr2nut123
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Re: M3

Post by mr2nut123 »

matt_mr2t wrote:A bit more? Even the lowest was 280bhp, the Evo model was 321bhp


Not mentioning the extra weight? I don't care what it's made of (to an extent) what the hell does that matter? It can't be made out of cr@p otherwise it wouldn't still be here and rust free (when looked after) 20 years later.

Double the price for only a fraction more performance. I'm comparing to the standard M3 NOT the CSL. Toyota didn't make a special edition tubby di.......wait a minute. They did! The TRD which had up to 500bhp and I bet it was still cheaper. Job done, now go away and buy another car instead of repeatedly spamming posts about how crap MR2s are compared to other more expensive cars.
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Lauren
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Re: M3

Post by Lauren »

mr2nut123 wrote:Not mentioning the extra weight? I don't care what it's made of (to an extent) what the hell does that matter? It can't be made out of cr@p otherwise it wouldn't still be here and rust free (when looked after) 20 years later.

Double the price for only a fraction more performance. I'm comparing to the standard M3 NOT the CSL. Toyota didn't make a special edition tubby di.......wait a minute. They did! The TRD which had up to 500bhp and I bet it was still cheaper. Job done, now go away and buy another car instead of repeatedly spamming posts about how crap MR2s are compared to other more expensive cars.


I think an M3 has a fair bit more performance than a mk2 turbo in all honesty. It also has a decent chassis. The TRD was hardly a production model was it? Besides having driven a TRD on track with something approaching 500bhp, all I can say is that it's all lag, hardly a usable everyday car like an M3 would be.
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mr2nut123
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Re: M3

Post by mr2nut123 »

Lauren wrote:
mr2nut123 wrote:Not mentioning the extra weight? I don't care what it's made of (to an extent) what the hell does that matter? It can't be made out of cr@p otherwise it wouldn't still be here and rust free (when looked after) 20 years later.

Double the price for only a fraction more performance. I'm comparing to the standard M3 NOT the CSL. Toyota didn't make a special edition tubby di.......wait a minute. They did! The TRD which had up to 500bhp and I bet it was still cheaper. Job done, now go away and buy another car instead of repeatedly spamming posts about how crap MR2s are compared to other more expensive cars.


I think an M3 has a fair bit more performance than a mk2 turbo in all honesty. It also has a decent chassis. The TRD was hardly a production model was it? Besides having driven a TRD on track with something approaching 500bhp, all I can say is that it's all lag, hardly a usable everyday car like an M3 would be.


Not really. And you seem to make out that turbo lag happens all the time. It's quite a simple task to keep the revs above 3k. The M3 felt sluggish until it's power band which was around 5k in my experience and felt not much quick than an average small turbo diesel, then the power all came at once. Now, how is this any different from turbo lag? :? I have huuuuge torque from low down and as long as your not in 5th at 1k then it really isn't a problem.

Plus, who cares about through the week? These cars are for weekends to have fun. Ford connects are business vehicles.. The TRD was available to the public just as any M3 is, just less of them. That's still a production car is it not? :-k
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Lauren
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Re: M3

Post by Lauren »

mr2nut123 wrote:
Not really. And you seem to make out that turbo lag happens all the time. It's quite a simple task to keep the revs above 3k. The M3 felt sluggish until it's power band which was around 5k in my experience and felt not much quick than an average small turbo diesel, then the power all came at once. Now, how is this any different from turbo lag? :? I have huuuuge torque from low down and as long as your not in 5th at 1k then it really isn't a problem.

Plus, who cares about through the week? These cars are for weekends to have fun. Ford connects are business vehicles.. The TRD was available to the public just as any M3 is, just less of them. That's still a production car is it not? :-k


You do not seem to understand what it is to adjust a throttle mid corner. That is where lag is a nightmare and not something you'd experience on a high revving NA.

Don't think the TRD is a production car because you couldn't buy it off the shelf. You had to buy a stock MR2 and then pay the extra for the TRD stuff to be done.

Some people actually use their car during the week. Do you only use your car at weekends?

Would you really want to drive a 500bhp TRD Mk2 all week? I wouldn't.
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Rubber Chicken
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Re: M3

Post by Rubber Chicken »

Lauren wrote:
Would you really want to drive a 500bhp TRD Mk2 all week? I wouldn't.


I WOULD!!! Vroooooooooom!!! \:D/
matt_mr2t
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Re: M3

Post by matt_mr2t »

Here we go again. Cant possibly criticise an MR2 on here, not for anything. If you do, it means you think they're rubbish. Despite owning one for years, spending insane amounts of money, breaking hearts when selling them. If any one dares to suggest there's another car out there that's even a tiny bit better your branded a hater.

GROW THE xxxx UP.
matt_mr2t
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Re: M3

Post by matt_mr2t »

Oh and just to fan the flames - the tubby was never available in England....

So really you should be comparing the NA with the M3. WHOLE new ballgame.
Kongaroo
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Re: M3

Post by Kongaroo »

Rubber Chicken wrote:
Lauren wrote:
Would you really want to drive a 500bhp TRD Mk2 all week? I wouldn't.


I WOULD!!! Vroooooooooom!!! \:D/


Me too \:D/

Talk about thread revival though. Who's been busy trolling the old driving experiences threads? :lol:

Give it a few minutes and we'll have someone start talking about the 'cheapness' of the 18 year old MR2 interior next :clown:
johnp
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Re: M3

Post by johnp »

[quote="Lauren"].


'You do not seem to understand what it is to adjust a throttle mid corner. That is where lag is a nightmare and not something you'd experience on a high revving NA.'

This statement is perfecly correct which is why I would pick a N/A car with sharp throttle response for track days and for fun on a deserted 'B' road.
BUT,the error that you constantly make,Lauren, is that we are discussing ROAD driving and in 2009 the 'deserted 'B' road' no longer exists.
So I prefer a smallish turbo,around 2000cc,that combines torque for effortless overtaking with the ability still to achieve 35 mpg on a run when driven reasonably quickly.Not throttle adjustable mid corner and you can't blip properly to heel and toe downchange so on the ROAD I now do neither but I'm fast enough,only bikes and Corsa chavs that I let go overtake me.Slow in,fast out...the old way,no tail provoking big power applications or abrupt lift-offs... I think you will find that if you urgently need to adjust the throttle mid-corner you are going too fast for safety on the ROAD.
MR2 turbos I know little about...but if they are old school like a Sierra Cosworth and completely flat below 3000 revs then I wouldn't like them.Modern turbos get up and go from below 2000 revs.
BMW M3's? Good cars but £40k so I personally would never compare them to cheaper vehicles.
BMW quality,same as Merc,OK but not that much better in the long run,especially lifespan of wear and tear components. Clinically efficient in interior character but no more inspiring than an expensive washing machine or fridge.
matt_mr2t
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Re: M3

Post by matt_mr2t »

The world is one big racetrack to our Lauren John. Regardless of safety, the law, other drivers...

Yet say to anyone you were speeding and you'll get told off for it :whistle:
mr2nut123
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Re: M3

Post by mr2nut123 »

matt_mr2t wrote:Here we go again. Cant possibly criticise an MR2 on here, not for anything. If you do, it means you think they're rubbish. Despite owning one for years, spending insane amounts of money, breaking hearts when selling them. If any one dares to suggest there's another car out there that's even a tiny bit better your branded a hater.

GROW THE xxxx UP.


Yea, here we go again. 'He' comes to the rescue to spout internet figures when he hasn't even driven the cars he's banging on about boring everyone to death.

You not gone to buy a clio yet?
mr2nut123
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Re: M3

Post by mr2nut123 »

Kongaroo wrote:
Rubber Chicken wrote:
Lauren wrote:
Would you really want to drive a 500bhp TRD Mk2 all week? I wouldn't.


I WOULD!!! Vroooooooooom!!! \:D/


Me too \:D/

Talk about thread revival though. Who's been busy trolling the old driving experiences threads? :lol:

Give it a few minutes and we'll have someone start talking about the 'cheapness' of the 18 year old MR2 interior next :clown:


Daft question to be honest. Yes I would. Must be a youth thing! :wink:
Last edited by mr2nut123 on Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mr2nut123
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Re: M3

Post by mr2nut123 »

johnp wrote:I think you will find that if you urgently need to adjust the throttle mid-corner you are going too fast for safety on the ROAD


Couldn't have said it any clearer. As for turbo lag, make sure you're going into the corner at the correct speed (comes with experience and balls) and providing you have gone INTO the corner slightly with boost, the turbine is still spinning and if you keep the revs above 3k, the throttle response is excellent. If it's laggy like you seem to claim, then go into the corner in 2nd instead of 3rd then? :-k :roll:
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Re: M3

Post by steve b »

mr2nut123 wrote:
johnp wrote:I think you will find that if you urgently need to adjust the throttle mid-corner you are going too fast for safety on the ROAD


Couldn't have said it any clearer. As for turbo lag, make sure you're going into the corner at the correct speed (comes with experience and balls)


Hypocrite. You have NO experience anywhere but the road so if you claim to have any knowledge of handling, of having "the balls" to throw a car into the corner at the fastest possible speed before it sliding, then you've had the car sliding (else how do you know thats the corret best speed) on the road so who are you to criticise Lauren who has practiced on the safety of the track.

You come across as a silly teenager.
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Ekona
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Re: M3

Post by Ekona »

It's more difficult to balance a turbo-charged car in the corners than it is an N/A one, simple physics will tell you that much even if you've not had much experience of either. It's much the same as when people say "Oh, the turbo is so well sized that there's no lag at all!", which is obviously utter crap as due to the very nature of the mechanical design there MUST be lag of some kind, no matter how small.
johnp
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Re: M3

Post by johnp »

steve b wrote:
mr2nut123 wrote:
johnp wrote:I think you will find that if you urgently need to adjust the throttle mid-corner you are going too fast for safety on the ROAD


Couldn't have said it any clearer. As for turbo lag, make sure you're going into the corner at the correct speed (comes with experience and balls)


'Hypocrite. You have NO experience anywhere but the road so if you claim to have any knowledge of handling, of having "the balls" to throw a car into the corner at the fastest possible speed before it sliding, then you've had the car sliding (else how do you know thats the corret best speed) on the road so who are you to criticise Lauren who has practiced on the safety of the track.'
This is becoming confused...I hope you're not trying to criticise me for saying that what makes a good track car does not necessarily make a good fast touring road car...in road driving with any modern car of 'sporting' pretentions if you are losing grip significantly on the road you will be exceeding acceptable safety limits.
Just because you know how to provoke and control oversteer on the track it does that mean that you should ever try to demonstrate this 'skill'on the public road...otherwise it's you that is being juvenile.
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