Recommend me a mapper/sparky

[Odin_S]

So you're engine is not forged? How much boost are you running?

[Willenium]

So you're engine is not forged? How much boost are you running?

No, not forged. According to my EBC readout I'm running around 16-17psi.

The graph from Saturday:



Showing my peak boost being reached very late but on the road it's definitely earlier than that. My concerns are with the AFR and whether it's safe or not. I'll try and do my idle myself with the pdf manual posted on the last page.

[C35Rob]

you will be seeing peak boost being reached earlier on the road as there will be more load on the engine, especially if he did the power runs in 3rd instead of 4th on the rollers.

there's definitely something amiss there, 241whp is ~ 290bhp @ the fly, which any rev3+ will make on a ct20 @1.2bar, stock ecu, decat and ebay sidemount IC.. if you have a T34, even the small 46trim wheel, you should be making much more at that pressure.

I'd be very interested in seeing what he's actually done with the map TBH (although my car is in bits at the min, so I can't power up my Datalogit, even if you did want to send me your ECU for a look-see), it does seem a bit on the skinny side of fuelling. Up high where you see that dip into 12:1, assuming you're at full boost there I wouldn't want to be any leaner than 11.5, ideally closer to 11.. the apexi base map would have you somewhere around 10.4 there, my own map has me at 11 dead


It's easy for keyboard mappers to criticise someone else's work without seeing the full picture, but if that was my car, I'd want it to be pretty much a full point richer across the board from ~5k revs. I've never used Steve (FC tuning) before, I do know some people with his maps (a 400bhp SR20 and a 390bhp RB20), which run great and the engines get beaten on regularly, but there are some negative reviews out there.

[Willenium]

you will be seeing peak boost being reached earlier on the road as there will be more load on the engine, especially if he did the power runs in 3rd instead of 4th on the rollers.

there's definitely something amiss there, 241whp is ~ 290bhp @ the fly, which any rev3+ will make on a ct20 @1.2bar, stock ecu, decat and ebay sidemount IC.. if you have a T34, even the small 46trim wheel, you should be making much more at that pressure.

I'd be very interested in seeing what he's actually done with the map TBH (although my car is in bits at the min, so I can't power up my Datalogit, even if you did want to send me your ECU for a look-see), it does seem a bit on the skinny side of fuelling. Up high where you see that dip into 12:1, assuming you're at full boost there I wouldn't want to be any leaner than 11.5, ideally closer to 11.. the apexi base map would have you somewhere around 10.4 there, my own map has me at 11 dead


It's easy for keyboard mappers to criticise someone else's work without seeing the full picture, but if that was my car, I'd want it to be pretty much a full point richer across the board from ~5k revs. I've never used Steve (FC tuning) before, I do know some people with his maps (a 400bhp SR20 and a 390bhp RB20), which run great and the engines get beaten on regularly, but there are some negative reviews out there.

Yeah to be fair it does feel much better on the map than stock management, I just want to ensure it's running safely. I didn't see much of the map but he told me the injectors are at 81% duty and he wants me to source bigger ones. His assistant was also urging me to let him supply and fit a Tial wastegate too as apparently all the 'eBay wastegates' leak badly? When I had it off to fit gaskets I sprayed GT85 on the valve which just stayed as a pool leading me to believe it does indeed seal but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

If I've not had it mapped elsewhere by the time you're in a position to fire up your Datalogit, you're welcome to have a nose around at it

[C35Rob]

No worries man, my parcel left japan yesterday so hopefully my car will be back together by the new year!

Tbh, it's not a bad shout to swap the cheap wastegate for a real one, they tend to leak down the valve stem pretty badly (I.e, your boost source from the compressor housing that is acting on the diaphragm is also leaking past the valve and down the exhaust) and the materials used aren't great.. When you think of the engineering that goes into a Tial (or turbosmart) gate you can see where your £220 or so goes! I've actually got a real tail and a fake turbosmart here at home, I might take some comparison pics later..

[Willenium]

No worries man, my parcel left japan yesterday so hopefully my car will be back together by the new year!

Tbh, it's not a bad shout to swap the cheap wastegate for a real one, they tend to leak down the valve stem pretty badly (I.e, your boost source from the compressor housing that is acting on the diaphragm is also leaking past the valve and down the exhaust) and the materials used aren't great.. When you think of the engineering that goes into a Tial (or turbosmart) gate you can see where your £220 or so goes! I've actually got a real tail and a fake turbosmart here at home, I might take some comparison pics later..

Fair enough. Maybe I'll look at getting a Tial ordered and have the screamer put onto a flange then. It's something I planned to do in the future anyway but never thought mine was actually knackered. Likely explains the boost drop as the revs climb.

Thanks for all your help so far

[C35Rob]

What happened with this? Did you get a response from Steve regarding the afr's and low power reading?

[jimGTS]

holy lag batman.

full boost at 6k rpm?

afrs in the 12s would worry me slightly.
did the mapper give any indication as to why only making that sort of power??

[Willenium]

I've not actually contacted him yet as I want to change out the wastegate for a decent one and see how it behaves. It seems strange that if I increase the percentage on my EBC any further that it makes less boost so what he said about the cheap wastegate may carry some weight. Idle is still all over and it stalled last night. Looking to get a commander as putting on the sidelights makes it go from hunting to a high idle when cold. Apparently a compensation setting may need a tweak.

He said the injectors are at 81% duty now. Does that sound overly high? Surely they can be pushed a little more right?

[C35Rob]

I've not actually contacted him yet as I want to change out the wastegate for a decent one and see how it behaves. It seems strange that if I increase the percentage on my EBC any further that it makes less boost so what he said about the cheap wastegate may carry some weight. Idle is still all over and it stalled last night. Looking to get a commander as putting on the sidelights makes it go from hunting to a high idle when cold. Apparently a compensation setting may need a tweak.

He said the injectors are at 81% duty now. Does that sound overly high? Surely they can be pushed a little more right?

80% duty is a safe limit for the injectors, I wouldn't want to push them past 85%

The PFC has different idle settings for electrical load or no electrical load, if it's hunting when you have no elec load (lights, air con etc) then the idle is probably set too low, easy to change with a commander or fc edit.

How is your boost controller plumbed in? as there are different configurations on the solenoid for internal and external wastegate..

[Willenium]

80% duty is a safe limit for the injectors, I wouldn't want to push them past 85%

The PFC has different idle settings for electrical load or no electrical load, if it's hunting when you have no elec load (lights, air con etc) then the idle is probably set too low, easy to change with a commander or fc edit.

How is your boost controller plumbed in? as there are different configurations on the solenoid for internal and external wastegate..

So with that in mind, is it possible that the fueling isn't sufficient to make more power?

I'm trying to get hold of a commander so I can adjust the idle settings. There's two I've got my eye on at the moment so fingers crossed.

My wastegate top port is plumbed into the COM port and I believe the feed is going into NC. The feed is from the hot pipe and split with a T-Piece that allows pressure to the solenoid and wastegate bottom port.

[jimGTS]

you should have another 50hp or so for fueling.
330-340hp (crank).
surprised its at 81%.
but your fuel pressure could be lower than usual, or its just the way its been mapped.

whether another 30-50hp is going to happen with the current turbo and mapping situation is another question really.
but more power can be gained from better boost control and more boost. 6k full boost is what i would expect on a 700hp turbo!


if your afrs where 0.5 lower across the board, id say it was a nice afr graph.
with the commander you could increase your injector percentage to 102%, may help richen the on boost afr's.

to put it into perspective, on oem ecu and a small ct26 hybrid at the same boost levels i was making 255whp on a dyno dynamics dyno.

ive since gone to a blitz ecu, FPR and guess in the 265-270whp area, 310-320 crank.

no reason why you shouldnt be there with bit more boost and on a standalone ecu.

[Willenium]

Hmm interesting. Could it be fuel pump related you think? I've not upgraded it but it's not the one that came with the car either (fuel tank imploded and ruptured so I fitted a tank and pump from a car that one of the guys on here was taking apart).

It actually boosts earlier on the road but for some reason it didn't peak until late on the dyno. I find in third and fourth it drops off but will hold a steady 17.5psi in fifth.

I'll keep a watchful eye on commanders and see if I can bag one.

[C35Rob]

Hmm interesting. Could it be fuel pump related you think? I've not upgraded it but it's not the one that came with the car either (fuel tank imploded and ruptured so I fitted a tank and pump from a car that one of the guys on here was taking apart).

It actually boosts earlier on the road but for some reason it didn't peak until late on the dyno. I find in third and fourth it drops off but will hold a steady 17.5psi in fifth.

I'll keep a watchful eye on commanders and see if I can bag one.

Tbh, its easy for people to speculate but without actually looking at the car and/or the map in fc edit theres no conclusive way of seeing what's going on.

Boost control is a good place to start, a genuine Tial wg is £212 from owen developments.

Im not sure if the car is a daily or a toy for you, but if you wanted to send me your ecu I'd be happy to have a look at the map for you, and see if we can sort your idling issues out at least.

A stock fuel pump in good condition should be fine at the moment but I would be looking at upgrading to a walbro 255 if you go for any more power. You'd know if it wasn't man enough cause you'd see the afr dropping off and it wouldnt change regardless of how much more fuel you tried to put back in to the map. Fuel pressure is a good shout too, the stock fpr should be fine, but it is the best part of 20 years old... saying that, if it was low, your duty cycle would be bigger to achieve the same afr. Its fine that people make 300+ on thr stock ecu but we have no idea what the duty cycles are on that.


We really need to know what turbo you've got too, t34 (aka t35) is quite a broad spectrum of possibilities, some would be quite lazy on a 2l engine.

[Willenium]

Tbh, its easy for people to speculate but without actually looking at the car and/or the map in fc edit theres no conclusive way of seeing what's going on.

Boost control is a good place to start, a genuine Tial wg is £212 from owen developments.

Im not sure if the car is a daily or a toy for you, but if you wanted to send me your ecu I'd be happy to have a look at the map for you, and see if we can sort your idling issues out at least.

A stock fuel pump in good condition should be fine at the moment but I would be looking at upgrading to a walbro 255 if you go for any more power. You'd know if it wasn't man enough cause you'd see the afr dropping off and it wouldnt change regardless of how much more fuel you tried to put back in to the map. Fuel pressure is a good shout too, the stock fpr should be fine, but it is the best part of 20 years old... saying that, if it was low, your duty cycle would be bigger to achieve the same afr. Its fine that people make 300+ on thr stock ecu but we have no idea what the duty cycles are on that.


We really need to know what turbo you've got too, t34 (aka t35) is quite a broad spectrum of possibilities, some would be quite lazy on a 2l engine.

Yeah I agree. There are too many variables to accurately pinpoint the problem(s).

I'll start looking for a Tial soon. Cheapest I've seen is a F38 about £211 on a website but can't remember what it was called. Hopefully that will alleviate the boost falloff once fitted. I've no idea of the exact turbo spec as even the old owner didn't know. Housings are one thing but the size of the wheels is another.

My car is just a toy really and the stock ECU is currently used as an anchor for the Apexi to sit on so if you do fancy a nose around on it when your car is back together I will remove it and send it to you