[Mk2] [Turbo] SidewaysSi Upgrades & Remap - 555bhp 510ftlbs

[Peter Gidden]

What do you think is behind the crazy torque ?

Most of the major components will help - stroker (so extra cylinder volume), turbo, strong sparks from ignition, and really important, cams/cam timing. And of course Ryan's mapping.

Cams are not the usual Piper/HKS/Cat etc...

[greeny]

Santa Pod is on the cards, When I eventually get the super upgraded Driveshafts.

Now to persuade him to get it to the pod with a set of slicks on it pete

With a set of slicks on it, I doubt you'd be breaking shafts chap.

Out of interest, which head are you running on this?

[Leakie Tbar]

What do you think is behind the crazy torque ?

Most of the major components will help - stroker (so extra cylinder volume), turbo, strong sparks from ignition, and really important, cams/cam timing. And of course Ryan's mapping.

Cams are not the usual Piper/HKS/Cat etc...

Yeah but you put this car next to any other built 2.2 on this forum and this spanks it on torque vs bhp its amazing

what cams are in it peter ?

i honestly take my hat of to you guys

i love the reliability factor of lowering peak hp/revs

10/10

[Peter Gidden]

Out of interest, which head are you running on this?

Rev3, big valve, lots of flow work

[Peter Gidden]

Yeah but you put this car next to any other built 2.2 on this forum and this spanks it on torque vs bhp its amazing

what cams are in it peter ?

i honestly take my hat of to you guys

i love the reliability factor of lowering peak hp/revs

10/10

Thanks Leakie.

As for the cams, now that would be telling...... AFAIK, they're the only set in the UK.

[Sideways Si]

With a set of slicks on it, I doubt you'd be breaking shafts chap.

You maybe right, I was using standard CV joints for ages.

[Leakie Tbar]

Yeah but you put this car next to any other built 2.2 on this forum and this spanks it on torque vs bhp its amazing

what cams are in it peter ?

i honestly take my hat of to you guys

i love the reliability factor of lowering peak hp/revs

10/10

Thanks Leakie.

As for the cams, now that would be telling...... AFAIK, they're the only set in the UK.

Pop up to Newcastle peter I will get you drunk as a skunk so you tell all spill your secrets lol

[Peter Gidden]

Yeah but you put this car next to any other built 2.2 on this forum and this spanks it on torque vs bhp its amazing

what cams are in it peter ?

i honestly take my hat of to you guys

i love the reliability factor of lowering peak hp/revs

10/10

Thanks Leakie.

As for the cams, now that would be telling...... AFAIK, they're the only set in the UK.

Pop up to Newcastle peter I will get you drunk as a skunk so you tell all spill your secrets lol

Hmmmm, unlimited Desparados for an evening ....

[Leakie Tbar]

now you're talking

[Leakie Tbar]

peter do you do tig welding?

[ashley]

What rods have you got in this block Peter?

[Peter Gidden]

Carillo. About £1K per set.

And on a separate but related point, Noble use Arrow.

[ashley]

Interesting

Thanks

[bobhatton]

Not a Eagle in sight

[ashley]

Nice one Bob

[RyanRs]

Peter, is that graph WHP or fwhp?

[RyanRs]

Well, assuming it is FWBHP, just wanted to compare it to mine as i notice they are very similar. Just wanted to query the effectiveness of your custom cams as it seems the torque is more or less identical on both these charts, possibly with mine having slightly less lag!? obv some maths needs to be done to compare them as the scales are slightly different.

If i am reading these graphs correct then one thing it does prove is that a BMIC setup has no real noticeable effect on lag at all -as i have a lengthy BMIC setup with 12x24x4" core and a very dodgy IC to TB pipe. Another thing i must add to my chart is that i had a fairly hefty crack in my exhaust manifold when it was done. Also, due to high IAT's there was no ignition advance added, it was running 1.9 bar and we had 4 heavy straps holding the car down as it kept driving off the dyno, even with the front wheel chocks in (surrey RR)! Ryan reckons the dyno was under reading by a good 30bhp due to this, combined with hot ambient temps and lack of rolling airflow cooling my IC. Ryan did go for 2bar on the last run, having left the IC to cool down and spraying some water on it but even with 4 truck straps on the car, soon as it hit boost it took a leap for freedom and ryan decided it needs to be put on a hub dyno if i want to go further. The BHP/Torque line on the graph was heading far past the line on my graph below, but he had to back off at 4.5k rpm.

My point about the cams / head being.. Im running an almost stock rev3 head, stock cams just ATS springs and some DIY CC / exhaust port polishing and a DIY port match, nothing else!

Btw, this is not a criticism at all, just an interesting comparison, food for thought type thing!

Heres the two graphs.





*btw, note the diff scales on the bottom graph, X,Y & Z

[ashley]

I'm guessing the HTA compressor wheel in your turbo is giving you some benefit here....just think what yours would be like with cams and headwork as well

I'm guessing the additional torque Simon's car made is showing the benefit of the headwork and cams

EDIT: it also looks like Simon's car would have hit peak torque earlier but the curve has backed off- I'm guessing Ryan dialed it back a bit to give more traction by bringing in the torque over a wider rev range??

[ashley]

It's specifically these two cars that have got me questioning my choice of turbo btw, whether to go HTA 3582, of GTX3576 or GTX3582.

Both represent very impressive results, the thing that really stands out is how reliable Simon's car appears to have been.

Another point to consider is the charge cooling differences between these two builds: Ryan you're running a large BMIC, and Simon's car has a large CC with some "additional" help (which might explain the additional torque?)...but that's upto Peter as to whether he wants to talk about it

[RyanRs]

It's specifically these two cars that have got me questioning my choice of turbo btw, whether to go HTA 3582, of GTX3576 or GTX3582.

Both represent very impressive results, the thing that really stands out is how reliable Simon's car appears to have been.

Another point to consider is the charge cooling differences between these two builds: Ryan you're running a large BMIC, and Simon's car has a large CC with some "additional" help (which might explain the additional torque?)...but that's upto Peter as to whether he wants to talk about it

Thing is tho, i don't think just the compressor wheel could make as much difference as cams & headwork? Surely if a compressor wheel can make that much difference then it everyone would be using it!?
The car did spool quite a bit quicker when it was previously tuned to 1.6 bar as there was no exhaust gas leaking from the manifold and due to less boost, lower intake temps, Ryan had tuned in the ignition advance accordingly. When i sort the BMIC so its cooling more efficiently then ill get it re-tuned, get the ignition advance re-instated and obviously have all the exhaust leaks sorted out. Iirc i lost about 40bhp from ign timing alone at 1.6bar when he pulled it out to increase the boost!
btw, Doesn't Si's have a 5s bottom end also? if so he will have approx 40cc more displacement than me as im using a 3s stroker.

Afaik, the GTX range are not performing as well as everyone expected. I remember reading a few reviews when they first come out. I believe ATS was one to criticize them? For the cost difference vs the GT range, they was not worth the extra. HTA's on the other hand seem to get nothing but amazing reviews, as well as PTE.

I am considering selling my HTA3582r and upgrading to a PTE 6266 or a HTA3586 however this all depends on how well the N2O system that i intend to fit works at reducing lag. I am expecting 1~1.5k rpm faster spool with a 50 shot, if thats the case then ill likely sell my HTA3586