ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

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stevecordiner
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by stevecordiner »

JJ wrote:
stevecordiner wrote:Maybe I should just be a show off and use the stock IC as well as a front mount lol :lol:


Thats what I was thinking of doing... have the side mount still cooling whilst in static traffic as you wont' be getting any driven air into the front rad whilst your sat in traffic... unless your running your air con ( kicks fan in at slow speed ) or fr1g the wiring so you can have an overide on the front fans... when idling or sommat ( throttle closed ? )

:)


Doesnt the normal radiator fans kick in when idling? Could hook them up to a switch so if I'm worried about the intake charge temps I have the option of turning the main radiator fans on manually. The key to avoiding heat soak I recon is volume of water. In the height of summer just plumb in a big water reservoir and have it in your boot to add an extra gallon or two :D
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MR2Mania
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by MR2Mania »

JJ wrote:Take it from me... go for front... the side mount couldn't handle a 15 minute abuse I gave it last summer ! though... ambient was 25 deg C !


I'm reserving judgement on that until I've got a bit more data, but the system I've built along the same lines as you has a big fan pushing air through the "rad". Calculations and theory show that at the flow rates needed for about 330bhp, I'm taking out as much heat as I'm putting in, so in theory it shouldn't heak soak with an engine producing up to 330bhp.

As I say, though, that's theory, because that's assuming that the fan supplier was correct in their flow rate for the fan, and to be honest, I haven't mounted it in the perfect way because of room limitations.

So far, my setup has been working well, although the intake temps have risen up to about 40C on a hard boost at 1.5+ bar. However, I think this is mainly down to heatsoak through the bottom of the CC as my EGTs are going through the roof. This is made worse by me running STUPIDLY lean at anything above 5700RPM!! With the Spearco A-A IC on there, it was still on the rich side at this point, so it shows that I'm getting more air in with the ST205CC with everything else being equal.

I now need to add some insulating material to the underneath of the ST205CC core and see if that improves, and dial in more fueling at the top. I'm already at more than 85% on the 900cc injectors, so I think I'm also proving the limits of the stock pump at the same time.

Isn't datalogging great!!! :D
MR2Mania
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by MR2Mania »

JJ wrote:
but if you use your nod, it can be done quickly although it's a bit of hassle.


I have no draining mechanism on the side mount :shock: !! No loaf used there !!! :lol: In my defence, I just ram in the new stuff via the pump thats a different colour to the existing water / coolant and just leave one of the nozzles off for the CC until it starts runnign blue or red !! :)


Yeah, I've got no draining, either (the benefit of hindsight, heh?). Will have to rely on the pump to draw all the coolant out if needed. If you were to use a bespoke rad in the stock IC location, you'd have to address that, and also ensure that the top of the system is lower than the cap on the ST205CC so that bleeding and topping up would be a darn sight easier.
MR2Mania
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by MR2Mania »

stevecordiner wrote:Doesnt the normal radiator fans kick in when idling?


Yeah, but the coolant system on the MR2 seems to be very efficient and the fan doesn't stay on for too long. But remember, we've got 2 fans there, one for AC and one for coolant.

It would be nice to have a clever bit of electronics that looks at the temp in the rad and trigger either of these fans, then there are no concerns at low speeds.
JJ
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by JJ »

and also ensure that the top of the system is lower than the cap on the ST205CC so that bleeding and topping up would be a darn sight easier.


Lol ! Reeenault didn't address them problems on their eirlier cars, having coolant hoses sitting far higher than its expansion bottles, their resolution .... loads and loads of bleeding points within the hoses.

To be honest, even if there was a small air lock in their, it wouldn't cause much of a stir, it would eventually sit to the highest point which is the CC rad cap area anyway... failing that, I'll just knife the CC plumbing and bleed off some air there ! elecy tape for a tempoary / permanant bodge.

Remember dino, always have a little slack, just in case some water hose blows off the essential engine coolant supply / exit - that way, you can just lob off 6 inches and drive home !! :wink:

As I say, though, that's theory, because that's assuming that the fan supplier was correct in their flow rate for the fan, and to be honest, I haven't mounted it in the perfect way because of room limitations.


If I could get a radiator fan in there, I would have... but lack of room, I resorted to a spal 7.5" pusher and used the ordinary sucker.

This time of year, I've had no issues with it dino.... only seemed to be the indian summer bit when it has problems... often provoked when first started too... ie. ran hot, stop car, then the CC pratically boils up with the heat on the engine... start it up and its already piping hot... does cool to ambient in around 6 minutes ... but thats a long time really to pull some 30 degrees out !

When i was at donny the other week, it was quite cold and same problem again, it was heating up after 15 mins or so round the track ... could actually feel it start hesitating when it starts getting luke warm back there !! It did improve when i removed the heat shield from the engine lid... could improve further more if I made a pair of fans there too ! :)
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MR2Mania
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by MR2Mania »

JJ wrote:
Lol ! Reeenault didn't address them problems on their eirlier cars, having coolant hoses sitting far higher than its expansion bottles, their resolution .... loads and loads of bleeding points within the hoses.


LOL. Luckily, I've got a sensor boss in one of the stock IC inlet pipes which happens to be the highest point in the system. THe downside is that it's a small hole (hence will take a while to fill from there) and it's also an an angle so that the sensor would clear the engine hatch thingy (*rse!). My clever idea was to take the whole ST205CC and lift it higher than the stock IC, run the pump for a bit and then top up (repeated a few times). By then, the system is bled, but your arms ache like feck!

JJ wrote:
To be honest, even if there was a small air lock in their, it wouldn't cause much of a stir, it would eventually sit to the highest point which is the CC rad cap area anyway... failing that, I'll just knife the CC plumbing and bleed off some air there ! elecy tape for a tempoary / permanant bodge.


Again, me being anal, I wanted to make sure all air is out of the system so that the pump doesn't have any issues by running dry.

JJ wrote:
Remember dino, always have a little slack, just in case some water hose blows off the essential engine coolant supply / exit - that way, you can just lob off 6 inches and drive home !! :wink:


ROFL! That was a nice bit of luck there, mate, heh? Still, we had all the fun of having to bleed the engine coolant system!

JJ wrote:
If I could get a radiator fan in there, I would have... but lack of room, I resorted to a spal 7.5" pusher and used the ordinary sucker.


I managed to get a 9" pusher fan in the shroud! Took a bit of lateral thinking though (that one brain cell I have took a bashing that day!).

JJ wrote:
This time of year, I've had no issues with it dino.... only seemed to be the indian summer bit when it has problems... often provoked when first started too... ie. ran hot, stop car, then the CC pratically boils up with the heat on the engine... start it up and its already piping hot... does cool to ambient in around 6 minutes ... but thats a long time really to pull some 30 degrees out !


Would be good to be able to run the fan and pump for a bit with the ignition off, but that's more faffing about.

BTW, have you insulated the bottom of the ST205CC at all, mate?
JJ
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by JJ »

BTW, have you insulated the bottom of the ST205CC at all, mate?


:lol: lol !! I did everything against the book, left it black, in fact a nice shade of metallic black and painted the cam cover black too... realistically, my engine bays like a big heat spong.

To be honest, my HKS turbo install, I'm sticking a side mount there as I have the piping for the huge dump valve ... its like the side of the pipe opening up effectively ... gonna work with that, then chargecool the sucker at a later date.

Need to stick my self in a couple of trigonometry lessons and get myself a protractor :shock: , there quite a few angles to contend with coming off the turbo, angle of the engine, angle of pipe into engine will it fit under the engine lid :shock: .... damn things would have been much easier if the engine was mounted convensionally straight !

I could actually work on this if I spent some time reassembling the engine from all over the floor in different towns to the actual engine stand !!

Oh ! One thing forward to look at... I've got some injectors that don't rely on the resistor packs on the rear bulhead... now am I right in simply pulling the resistor packs and bridging the connector block... or is there another more eleborate way in coupling the injector feeds directly from the ecu ??

fanks anal one :lol: :wink:
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MR2Mania
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by MR2Mania »

JJ wrote:Need to stick my self in a couple of trigonometry lessons and get myself a protractor :shock:


When you're done, and have absorbed it all, can you give *ME* a lesson? ;)

JJ wrote:Oh ! One thing forward to look at... I've got some injectors that don't rely on the resistor packs on the rear bulhead... now am I right in simply pulling the resistor packs and bridging the connector block... or is there another more eleborate way in coupling the injector feeds directly from the ecu ??


Ah, interesting question, and one slightly beyond my leccy knowledge. I do know one thing, though. You have to be careful with the resistance of injectors. Some come with low impedance and others with higher. I know from the MoTeC installs that, when using the MoTeC M800 OEM version (as used by most Evo owners, because it's nice and plug-n-play, and runs everything), you have to choose a certain type of injector. The MoTeC brochure says that the OEM M800 "has all the facilities of the M800
except it can only drive low current type Fuel Injectors". So by this I understand that you would need higher resistance injectors to be used with this ECU (I think that's 16Ohms). If you have low impedance injectors to use, then you'll have to use a resistor pack.

The injectors I'm using are about 2.5-3Ohms, ISTR. So it could be that I'm relying on the stock resistor pack to get the right impedance for the ECU, but my MoTeC could probably be configured to run those injectors without the resistor pack.

I'd say you need to find what the ECU wants in terms of resistance first before attempting anything.

Sorry, long winded answer that probably still don't help you any! :(
[/quote]

JJ wrote:fanks anal one :lol: :wink:


LOL! People will be getting the wrong idea about me! I'm just REAL fussy on the detail side of things.
raptor95GTS
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by raptor95GTS »

ok I'm convinced front mount it will be

JJ - I realised the colour problem of the CC and did this to it

Image

Took ages to get all the paint off then I sprayed it Hammerite Silver Smooth. Should've just sprayed the blighter over the black! :evil:

Its the same all round, no black
stevecordiner
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by stevecordiner »

On the injectors note, I actually asked Pete at Thor about this before I ordered my injectors. I was going with top feed 84lb/hr one from the US and wanted to know if the type of injector was interchangeable with a power FC.

Here's his comment - this was a passing discussion not a technical debate of the ins and outs of it though.

"Basically the car will always want to see a high impedance to drive injectors.

So you either have

Low Impedance injectors PLUS a ballast resistor pack

OR

High impedance injectors.


As you have a ballast resistor you have the choice to either have low or high. Depending on price and availability.
If you go for larger flow LOW impedance then you HAVE to use the ballast resistor pack fitted already
OR
If you go for larger flow HIGH impedance injectors then you have to remove the ballast resistor. Which is an easy job as you basically short it out. (but let a professional do this if you don't know what I'm talking about)"

:)
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JJ
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by JJ »

If you go for larger flow HIGH impedance injectors then you have to remove the ballast resistor. Which is an easy job as you basically short it out.


Ah ! This is where I'm coming from, simply pull resistor pack / ballast from rear of bulkhead and short connector out to give direct feed from ecu to injector.

Looks like yours might be the guinea pig steve !! :lol:

I've got some sard 850s going in, so they will be high impedence, junk the resistor pack type !!

I'd say you need to find what the ECU wants in terms of resistance first before attempting anything.


Thanks... I think steves answer covers it ....

Basically the car will always want to see a high impedance to drive injectors

Guess this paper clips on my desk may just come in handy !! :lol:
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Re: ct26 output temps and ST205 CC efficiency

Post by gtschris.com »

stevecordiner wrote:I am ... but suprisingly enough I dont work with temperatures haha.


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