"We don't adjust valves"

Discussion and technical advice for 84-89 AW10 & AW11 MR2. 3A-LU, 4A-GE, 4A-GZE.

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BIGBOBO
Posts: 531
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Location: Belgium

"We don't adjust valves"

Post by BIGBOBO »

So I went to mr T to ask them to adjust my valves since I don't have the tools to do it myself. I mean, how long would it take with the right tools and experience? An hour or two?

"Your valves need adjustment? What do you mean?"
Euh... you need to measure the gap and insert some new shims.
"Oh, let me check with the mechanics"
....
"Yeah, well, we normally don't adjust valves"
What do you mean "We don't adjust valves"
"We only did it on Previa's running on LPG"
So, In all these years you've never adjusted valves on any car other than a previa running on gas?
"Yes"
*speechless*
"But we could try it if you want"
How long would it take?
"I'll schedule an entire day"
:shock:


This can't be real can it?
LimeyMk1
IMOC Committee
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Location: Gosport

Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by LimeyMk1 »

Yikes! :shock:

Got a set of feeler gauges mate? I have a nice spread sheed that works out what size shims are needed to get the clearances back into spec. :thumleft:

Once you've got the hang of it you can hire out your sirvices to MrT. :lol:
un1eash
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Location: Leicester

Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by un1eash »

Isnt it very unlikly for the values to need adjusting. I checked mine and they were all fine with 114k on the clock.

I'd get some feeler gauges and check yours first before you throw money at Mr T.
crazylegs
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Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by crazylegs »

yep very unlikely to need "adjusting" you usually only need to reshim if you have had any headwork. the upper engine is usually very good.
Jim-SR
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Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by Jim-SR »

as others have said, they rarely need adjusting to stay within tolerance, unless you take things apart and have machining done

im not at all surprised that Toyota havent ever adjusted any. by the time they would be worn enough to be out of tolerance by their standards there is little or no chance the car would be getting taken to a main dealer for work!!
NDR008
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Location: Aichi-ken, Japan

Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by NDR008 »

Go to the FIAT forum... people constant adjust shims there... (still ranting about the Toyota vs EU cars....)

If you want to check just do it yourself mate, not worth the cost at all.
PW@Woodsport
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Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by PW@Woodsport »

Toyota mechanics are clueless unless it involves plugging a diagnostic code reader in and even then they dont know what to do with the results.Moral is take your car to Toyota at your peril.
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BIGBOBO
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Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by BIGBOBO »

Well, my car is running a bit rough on idle and since I checked everything else (timing, vacuum leaks, air in coolant,...) I thought it could be that.

Add a ticking valve and I thought it was clear.


But anyway, I'll measure them myself this weekend if I have the time. But I have no clue how to replace them. Normally you need a special tool no?
NDR008
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Location: Aichi-ken, Japan

Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by NDR008 »

PW@Woodsport wrote:Toyota mechanics are clueless unless it involves plugging a diagnostic code reader in and even then they dont know what to do with the results.Moral is take your car to Toyota at your peril.


I would like to say that it is perhaps UK Toyota mechanics that are this ignorant. In Malta, not only is our service departments larger then the actual car showrooms, and packed with the TTE and TRD parts (as I'd say a good 30% buy TRD stuff, including merchandise items like pendrives, T-shirts etc - which does not seem to happen as much in the UK because when I asked for the parts/merchandise department they stared at me in Toyota World Bristol North and Toyota World Bristol...), but in Malta Toyota Dealer Mechanics are hardcore fans, I know one has a 1991 Corolla Coupe (known in the states as the Corolla GTS or SR5), which is the AE92 version of the Trueno never seen any in the UK. Another guy with a kp61 perfectly restored starlet. One with a TRD spec Celica.

Oh mind you, the Toyota dealer in Malta does not sell UK spec second hands, instead they import the second hands from Toyota Japan, because in general we prefer Jap sepcs.

But I guess it is because our dealership is the oldest in Europe (first Toyota authorised dealership in Europe). 8)

They have often phoned up dealers from around the world eg Australia to try and get me a SECA II grill for my AE92 liftback or tried to source me a second hand part in their breaks because their motto is to try and satisfy the customer as much as possible, even if to them it means a non immediate profit.

Perhaps we should give UK Toyota mechanics a few kicks.
PW@Woodsport
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Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by PW@Woodsport »

...or just avoid them altogether,worse than useless in my opinion but people still take their cars there.Sounds like the maltese dealers are how things should be here.
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NDR008
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Location: Aichi-ken, Japan

Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by NDR008 »

Oh yeah, I also visited the Toyota Dealership in Dubai, not sure on their mechanics, but the parts department seemed decently competent at least. Perhaps not as passionate as back home (yes I know it is sad, when I go on holiday Toyota dealerships are the first place I go to... first day in UK - Toyota, first day in Dubai - Toyota, eh.... first time ever in Germany - Toyota Motorsport GmbH...) as my friends tell me - no hope lol.
JMR_AW11
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Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by JMR_AW11 »

BIGBOBO wrote:So I went to mr T to ask them to adjust my valves since I don't have the tools to do it myself. I mean, how long would it take with the right tools and experience? An hour or two?

"Your valves need adjustment? What do you mean?"
Euh... you need to measure the gap and insert some new shims.
"Oh, let me check with the mechanics"
....
"Yeah, well, we normally don't adjust valves"
What do you mean "We don't adjust valves"
"We only did it on Previa's running on LPG"
So, In all these years you've never adjusted valves on any car other than a previa running on gas?
"Yes"
*speechless*
"But we could try it if you want"
How long would it take?
"I'll schedule an entire day"
:shock:


This can't be real can it?


IIRC valve adjustment is part of a C service on a mk1 MR2.

When I used to get my mk1 serviced at Mr T I had two C services done.

On both occasions I asked about the valves and they said they don't actually check them.

The dealer said they had been advised NOT to check the valves by Toyota HQ as it was unnecessary.

Didn't stop the mechanic ticking the checkbox on my service sheet to say he'd checked the valves.... :^o

Also they don't always 'change' fluids.

eg I caught them out on one C service where it was clear they hadn't disturbed the gearbox drain plug. They charged me for oil but their excuse was they only need to check and top it up despite the C service saying 'change'....
boyzdad
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:20 pm

Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by boyzdad »

BIGBOBO wrote:

But anyway, I'll measure them myself this weekend if I have the time. But I have no clue how to replace them. Normally you need a special tool no?


No, you don't need any special tools, to check them (a tourque wrench would be good thou).

Remove the throttle cable tripod thing, remove the 2 cam covers, these can be a bit of a pig, don't use a screwdriver unless you really can't shift them as it's easy to damage the head, I use a hide mallet to tap the side, resonable force can be used, the wooden shaft of a hammer can also be used.

Make sure there is room in front of the car, and on level groud, put the car into 4th gear.

Take off the handbrake, and rock the car forward, the cams will turn slowly allowing you to be accurate with thier placement. When the bottom of the cam lobe is in line with the shims, measure the gaps and note them down.

Repeat above until all gaps measured.

If, you find any of the gaps are out of spec then you need to proceed to the next step, if not, take out of gear, reassemble and drive ;)

I am a metric man, but I always measure shims in thou's (imperial), why?, easy, my feeler gauges are imperial ;)

The haynes manual quotes Inlets as 6-10 thou and exhausts as 8-12 thou, I aim for 8 thou on inlets and 10 on exhausts, in the middle of the range.

So, if you have some gaps that are too big/small, then you will need to remove the shims.......

Method 1, use the special shim flipping tool, I have never had my hands on this, so I am unable to comment on how to use it, do a search for "Shim bank", you may be able to borrow it.

Method 2, no special tools (apart from a torque wrench), just takes longer :(

Remove the plastic cam covers, turn the engine to top dead centre (I use the 4th gear rocking method for this).

Mark the cam belt and timing pulleys with paint/tippex so you can re-align them easily. Loosen the cam belt tensioner, you will need a long-reach socket for this, a good one, it's easy to mash this up.

Slip the cam belt from the pulley's, place a spanner on the molded "nut" on the cam(s). Undo the 14mm bolt holding on the pully(s) and put to one side.

Undo the bolts holding the metal bracket (the one the plastic covers bolt to) you will need to ease this forward to remove the cams.

Slowly undo each cam bearing cap, a small amount at a time, until all are off, place to one side, remember to keep them in order. Remove the cam(s)

Now the easy part, using a magnet on a stick (£shop special), remove the shim/bucket. Measure the shim and calc as follows......


Example on an exhaust shim (10 Thou wanted).......

Measured shim size Measured gap
118 (thou) 14(Thou)

We want 10 Thou so 14(measured) - 10(wanted) = 4 Thou difference.
As the gap is to big we need a thicker shim (this one always makes me think a bit) so, 118(measured shim) + 4 (difference) = 120 Thou shim needed.

It's the similar if the gap is too small, except we subtract the differnce.

Measured shim size Measured gap
118 (thou) 7(Thou)

10 (wanted) - 7(measued) = 3 difference, 118(shim) - 3 = 115 thou shim needed.

It's pretty easy, sit down, have a cuppa, and work them out ;)

I normally find that I can shuffle shims around (gaps too big for gaps too small) and only need to buy/get a couple of shims (search "shim bank" again).

The reassembly is a reverse of the strip down, make sure that the crank and cams have NOT moved, you may also need to reset the distributor.

Obviously tourque settings for all bolts etc should be observerd, and it's a good time to replace the oil-seals on the cams ;)

I would go into the re-assembly further, but my fingers are tired, and most of you have probably fallen asleep by now! ;)

It does sound alot worse than it is to do, it takes me about 2-3hrs to do the above, at a slow, unstressed pace.

If anyone can provided a picture of the shim flipping tool, then this would be good as maybe I can make one, and there will be 2 (or more if anyone else wants to make 1) to share around! :)

I hope this helps, and I havn't made you run for the gin!
LimeyMk1
IMOC Committee
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:28 am
Location: Gosport

Re: "We don't adjust valves"

Post by LimeyMk1 »

Instead of moving the car to move the cams I'd pull the spark plugs out and get a ratchet on the crank pulley. :thumleft: Means you can jack the back of the car up and not have to bend over so far.
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