MK1 handbrake.......!!!!

[greglebon]

I know this one crops up again and again, but its starting to bug me a little, now......

In 2006, the car failed MOT on handbrake: this was the first MOT I put the car through, so I did not know its previous.......

Thinking it was just an adjustment needed, I looked into it and found the caliper seized.
Replaced passenger side caliper: fine..
Later that year, also did drivers side one....

2007: failed on handbrake.....!
Mechanic said it needed a new cable, which he fitted....passed MOT, handbrake worked fine.....(for a few months..! )

2008: mechanic put it through, fixed handbrake: no probs.......

Now, 3 months later, I have a p1$$-poor handbrake, again...!
Basically, every time it gets sorted, it only remains fixed for a couple of months.........

I've done both calipers, the cable, and it has been adjusted (twice), and its STILL rubbish....!

Has anyone here got a decent handbrake: one that works for, say, a year or more.........

If so.....any secrets you wish to share with us.....

[crazylegs]

you must be doing something wrong. the handbrakes are not superb but are good enough. one side is normally enough to hold the car on a steep hill. normally once they are sorted they will work for ever if the car is used, do you have it stored for long periods ?

[greglebon]

you must be doing something wrong. the handbrakes are not superb but are good enough. one side is normally enough to hold the car on a steep hill. normally once they are sorted they will work for ever if the car is used, do you have it stored for long periods ?

I cannot rule out the possibility that it has been "fudged" in the past to get it through the MOT.....

However, its operation is a fairly simple process, so I would expect it to be relatively easy to fix properly, especially as the guy I've used in the past is supposed to be good at what he does..........!!?

I just wondered if the handbrake on MK1's was just REALLY bad: period...?

[Lunarmatic]

Just a thought but are the undertrays beneath the engine and fuel tank missing on your car? Aren't the cables known for clogging up with crud and muck even with the undertrays on there? Without them it would probably be much worse.

[HT]

you must be doing something wrong. the handbrakes are not superb but are good enough. one side is normally enough to hold the car on a steep hill. normally once they are sorted they will work for ever if the car is used, do you have it stored for long periods ?

I cannot rule out the possibility that it has been "fudged" in the past to get it through the MOT.....

However, its operation is a fairly simple process, so I would expect it to be relatively easy to fix properly, especially as the guy I've used in the past is supposed to be good at what he does..........!!?

I just wondered if the handbrake on MK1's was just REALLY bad: period...?

Could it not be the mechanism in the caliper itself being just worn?

[greglebon]

Possibly...but its unlikely as they are both recent replaced with refurbished Fensport units.......

I did check the operation of both units prior to fitting: they both looked / felt brand new, TBH........

Its feels almost as if the adjustable part of the cable is slipping, over time?

I will check this out, as both my Mk1's have suffered from this.

It could be that the cables simply stretch quite a lot, due to the considerable strain on them: later cars have a separate, smaller drum or disc for the handbrake, so it requires less force to hold it on.....

[crazylegs]

the cables dont stretch, they dont collect crud under the trays. they do rust up and stick if left. IF you had new cables there should be no problem. the calipers tend to work or not. again ususally due the siezing with no use. have you checked the sliders. you may only be pulling up properly on one side of the disc. if you can get to me one evening or weekend i will have a look for you. i think it highly unlikely you will have had all these problems if everything has been done as stated.
my silver mk1a has now sat outside for the best part of a year. a quick check and free up of the sliders and it sailed through the MOT

[Karl_T]

Personally I think the handbrake on a Mk1 is REALLY bad, as you say. However you do seem to be having an inordinate amount of grief with it.

Have you had both cables replaced or just one to one side. A new cable shouldn't be giving you trouble yet, but I'm wondering if when you had i done only the failed side was replaced and the other has now gone.

The calipers aren't great, I seem to be forever freeing stuck/seized pads and stiff guides. No troubles with the front ones though. I've also had a set of recon calipers I had to send back once because the handbrake self adjuster didn't work at all. Makes me wonder what they do to re-con brakes above sandblasting and replaceing external seals.

you have my sympathies.

Karl_T

[greglebon]

I think only the passenger side cable was replaced: however, this year the mechanic should have seen the same failure with the drivers side at MOT and replaced that cable, too...?

I'll get under it at the weekend and have a poke around......

I suppose spraying WD40 into the cable will improve things a little, assuming its not a sticking caliper sliding mechanism...?

The odd thing about all this is that when it came back after its MOT, the handbrake lever only went up about 40 degrees with the HB on....the car was solid at this point.

Now I can pull the lever up about 75 degrees: there is gradual resistance at the top end, and it FEELS like its activating something...but I would really need to pull the lever up very hard to get it to support the car on a hill.........

Everyone is saying their HB's work...but how HARD are you all having to pull to get it to hold....?




Just had a thought.....!
Could this be anything to do with the initial setting up of the caliper following replacement..?
I remember now that you need to pump the brakes 30 times to seat the caliper BEFORE you pull the handbrake lever.....(or something along these lines..! )??

[phaeton]

From my armchair that sounds to me if the other cable has now snapped. Jack up the rear & put on the handbrake, try to tun each wheel, bet one turns the other doesn't. You could do it the rough ar$ed way, drive forward up to about 20mph & yank on the handbrake & see if either will lock up.

Alan...

[PW@Woodsport]

I disagree about the comments that a mk1 handbrake is crap,they are really good if working properly and above all adjusted correctly.

There is a very unique proceedure for these that not many people are aware of,if you dont follow the proceedure to the letter you will get problems.The mr2 caliper is not just a lever pushing a piston,its far more complicated than that.Handbrake cables also DO stretch,but if they are new it wont be that.

My money is on incorrectly adjusted/set up rear calipers.I can get a mk1 to hold on any slope wih just one caliper hooked up using my proceedure.

[greglebon]

Certain things are coming back to me now....

IIRC, when the passenger side was done, the HB was rubbish...
After this I found out (prob from Paul, right here on this forum!), about the pumping the brake pedal to set the caliper into position before pulling the HB lever for the first time.......

This was apparently done(?): passed MOT / HB worked, etc...

Last year, he replaced the cable (cannot remember which side).

Now given that both calipers are quite new, their operation SHOULD be ok?

The other cable could well have gone now, so its possible that what I'm feeling is zip on one side, and half on the other, from a mis-adjusted set-up..?


Maybe I need to disconnect both cables, re-seat the pistons with the pedal, and then re-connect the cables...?

[crazylegs]

just get someone to apply the hand brake whilst you watch each caliper arm. you should be able to see some movement in the arm/cable. it wont be a lot but it should move. this could then rule out the cable.
mind you you will probably be taking the thing off anyway so ignore this as it would be a waste of time.

[monkeymax]

My money is on incorrectly adjusted/set up rear calipers.I can get a mk1 to hold on any slope wih just one caliper hooked up using my proceedure.

Yup, I'd have said the same. I've done a knowledgebase article on rebuilding rear calipers. If I remember correctly I've put a bit at the bottom about resetting the handbrake mechanism. It'd be worth trying to reset the mechanism again before you spend any more money on it as that could be all it is.
Also, the Mk1 handbrake system is made up of three cables; one to each wheel and a third one from the handbrake lever in the car to the pivot point under the car. The adjusting bolt under the car should allow you to tighten the cable sufficiently to rule out any stretching of the third cable from the inside of the cabin, but it could be that it's this cable that's causing you problems as well (though from what I understand from other peoples problems with these, it's rare for this cable to cause issues).

[phaeton]

I can get a mk1 to hold on any slope wih just one caliper hooked up using my proceedure.

Which is??

Alan...

[PW@Woodsport]

Ive posted up the correct proceedure many times but apparently i only help people on this forum to fuel my ego,so i advise using the search function.

[bmwbill]

I disagree about the comments that a mk1 handbrake is crap,they are really good if working properly and above all adjusted correctly.

There is a very unique proceedure for these that not many people are aware of,if you dont follow the proceedure to the letter you will get problems.The mr2 caliper is not just a lever pushing a piston,its far more complicated than that.Handbrake cables also DO stretch,but if they are new it wont be that.

My money is on incorrectly adjusted/set up rear calipers.I can get a mk1 to hold on any slope wih just one caliper hooked up using my proceedure.

I agree with Paul on this one he has devised a great method of setting up the rear brakes I followed his method after fitting new rear brake pads this year, and the hand brake has never been so good.
Bill

[phaeton]

i advise using the search function.

Tried that too many results hence the question.

Alan...

[monkeymax]

Alan, there's a link to one such thread in my knowledgebase article I mentioned earlier.
However, it is:
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47697

check your cables are not sticking,and also the caliper handbrake lever arms arent seized,then do the following....bear in mind if you move the caliper levers at any point during this proceedure it will reset the caliper and you will have no handbrake as you do now...

remove plastic undertrays
slacken off handbrake cables completely
undo lower caliper bolt and swing caliper up
remove pads
grind the little nobble off the inside pad backing (it makes adjustment easier and serves no real purpose-its there to stop the piston unwinding which is nigh on impossible,remove it and life is ten times easier)
turn the piston clockwise until it will go in no further,you will be able to turn it but it wont actually go in anymore
fit pads copper slipped up
wind piston anticlockwise 180* and try to slide it back over the pads,if it wont go then take the piston all the way back in but add 10*-20* of clockwise rotation,then back out 180*.... if its a slack fit keep turning the piston anticlock until you have a good interference fit between caliper and pads (this is where removing the metal nobble from the inside pad helps)
if at any time you accidentally moved the lever arm start again
when both calipers are bolted back in place with good fitting pump the brake pedal several times
take up the slack on the handbrake cable so you have 3 or 4 clicks
go and make a cup of tea

[phaeton]

Thanks very much fotr that, my nearside handbrake isn't working at all, suspect cable but it'll be a while before I get to it, fit kitchen (not in car) then engine out, engine in, then maybe brakes.

Alan...