[Mk2] [Turbo] limits of stock rev3 internals + what would this spec develop

[Tim-B]

Tim B

[2barGee]

Tim B

lol

[Harry]

harry mate stop posting in all topics if your out of your depth!
rev 3 internalls should handle 400 all day with the correct mapping

Is that a fact.

Dangerous Posted:


Been thier done that..... made 350 rwhp for 6 months on a stock rev 3 engine with a T04z@ 1.4bar ...ran a 12 sec 1/4 mile and then ........ loss of compression and engine over heats every time the turbo comes in !!! Takes car up to rogue last month and has the engine stripped down to find cracked block cylinder 2 AND mashed piston ringland number 3.....

It was really tying to find the limits of the stock engine and I guess I did ! If you havent got the money to rebuild your engine ( Its costing me loads to do it proper!!) then I would stay away from a bigger turbo etc.... mine was fine at 305 rwhp 1.3 bar on a steel ct20 for about 3 years its only when you put large volumes of boost into a stock engine when things go wrong.... Take it from me a 10sec car on stock internals will only last 10secs!!!

Parts sellers are quick to sell the dream feed the Information tuners like to hear conveniently avoid to highlight the critical Information.Who will be there to pick up the pieces.In which case one may as well just but direct from the USA.

[Harry]

so much wrong information in this thread its unreal

Like some have said its all down to the tuning and actually knowing what your doing with these engines and doing it for yourself. Once you've done it you can see how much rubbish and mis-infromation really floats around forums

Tim B

Is that a fact too.

you can see how much rubbish and mis-infromation really floats around forums

Yes they can.

[3S Service Centre]

the point thats is being missed here is that if you can afford to test the limits of the stock bottom end good for you, if you want reliable power goals follow know methods. If this is not noted there will be some very dissapointed people. The question over who knows what best could better be resolved by allowing people to test those limits. There is always alot to be gained by those who push limits.

About the surrounding snydy remarks that seem more and popular here some really do need to get out more, and the forum rules enforced better.

[rookie-racer]

this has whipped up a hornets nest... i honestly expected only one or two replies, brief and something like yes it will but it wont last or no oyu darent go past 350...

James at 3Sthe point thats is being missed here is that if you can afford to test the limits of the stock bottom end good for you, if you want reliable power goals follow know methods.

- i think i can afford to chalk this engine up to experience, provided i can get couple of years of light usage out of it, as long as i am guaranteed that theseemingly inevatable piston failing wont kill the turbo, as my budgeting relies on the turbo being carried across to the v6 at a later date.

if that is unlikely, I need to review the plans either build to a lower power goal or source more capital and drop a set of forgies in there? I have already started to enquire about a set of used forgies elsewhere on the board. I do like the idea of building on stock to the limit, but i will eed to review this thread as tere are some folks saying 499bhp on stock inernals and others saying 350. I think i would reliably make the higher end of the spectrum as the base engine is simmo490's old one and seemingly it was pampered, and im going for charge cooler to keep the temps down and properly fueling, possibly over speccing the fuel arrangement so my mapper (hopefully ryan at 2bar will take this on) can cheat and over fuel like toyota did, if needed, to keep temps and pressures down in there

Alot of experts have either contributed or been refered to ie mark edwards... I must pm him and hope that the email notification still goes to an active email adress... but i will weigh up all the information presented to me from all sources and advise you on whether i decide to ponce out and lower the power threshold, split the difference and lob some forgies and rods in there or, balls it out and see what happens

cheers guys and speak soon - jay

[rookie-racer]

Patrick @ RougeMy personal opinion is that you won't reach the power goals that you've specified without opening the engine but I certainly won't be upset if you prove me wrong!

you might be upset if it means i dont come to you for a v6 conversion

like i've said im going to mull it over as i've got alot of opinions from people i regard as demigods when it comes to these cars to weigh up. plus it transpires today that an offer we had put in on a house when the mortgague market was more favourable has been accepted , so some jiggling might need to be done. thus if the house is going to require more of a deposit that i wanted i cant blerry well go and buy a GT3071 nor forgies even if i elected o go down that road.

so lets look at th options,

Option 1

Stock rev3 + Ct26 hybrid + ST205 Charge Cooler + injectors and standalone + 2bar tuning mapping it = reliable 350bhp that will probably out last me.

Option 2

Stock rev3 + GT3071 + ST205 Charge Cooler + injectors and standalone + 2bar tuning mapping it = Say 400BHP Actively Debatable Longevity With the pistons rather than ryans skills being the weakest link

Option 3

Forgies in a Rev3 + Ct26 hybrid + ST205 Charge Cooler + injectors and standalone + 2bar tuning mapping it = reliable 350bhp that will probably out last me.

Option 4
Forgies Rev3 + GT3071 + ST205 Charge Cooler + injectors and standalone + 2bar tuning mapping it = reliable 400-450bhp ????? that will probably out last me

btw - as a group can we decide if it is really necessary to do all the ARP studs harry talked about??? I cant help but thinking that if we decide yes, then the next step is someone is going to say while you are in there, you might as well do the bearings... and if we decide to do them someone will persuade us to put a crank in it or start on the head

hell if i was able to afford it partick iirc you guys do a stroker kit - how much?

[Rogue]

I'm not arguing with anyone.

Dangerous Dave consciously took the decision to push the stock internals to breaking point, knowing that his build costs for uprated internals would be about the same either way. There's another member on here who's car has a mixture of stock and uprated internals from it's time in Japan who also took the decision to see how far they could be pushed. So far the stock rods (with uprated fasteners) have survived 440+rwhp.

As long as your tolerance to risk is good, then see how far the rabbit hole goes - but do so with the expectation that your engine will fail at some point and you won't be too disappointed if it does.

Good luck!

[greeny]

so much wrong information in this thread its unreal

499rwhp had been made in the uk on stock internals about 3 years ago and very nearly got into the 10's in the 1/4mile then and lasted alot longer than 10 seconds.

Like some have said its all down to the tuning and actually knowing what your doing with these engines and doing it for yourself. Once you've done it you can see how much rubbish and mis-infromation really floats around forums

Tim B

Have you done it? How far did you get?

[rookie-racer]

cheers partick I do expect it to fail, - eventually - but im trying to make sure i get say 20,000 miles out it before that point, hence th nanny over fueling. if i get out of college before it goes bang im a happy man, if i get round the block and it goes bang on the third corner im gutted.

I really nead a few years of mixed duty light use, ie 20k on the road no strip or track, over say five summers, out of this and apart from that when it inevetably does go BANG!!! - i need the turbo to survive

[Tim-B]

me and Xxxx are working together on it, Where hes doing the builds and i'm supplying parts it allows me to see first hand evidence of the work.

This is why the partnership between us works so well, its all first hand experience between us over passed down information

its also nice to be working with someone where were both on a level base over me having to do all the work, we can throw ideas around and bounce information off each other.

Tim B

[Tim-B]

you seem to be in a position where if it fails its going to be problomatic for you.

My advice is don't do it then. Anything more than 350bhp go for forged setup, ok it'll wear more than a normal setup because of what forged pistons do but it won't suddenly fail stranding you somewhere

Anyway i've sorted your account so i'll talk to you more over on our forum

Tim B

[jimGTS]

is a stock engine going to like 1.5-1.7bar pressures to reach this 350bhp area on a ct26 hybrid???

[RyanRs]

is a stock engine going to like 1.5-1.7bar pressures to reach this 350bhp area on a ct26 hybrid???

its the combustion pressures they are referring to bud.

Can someone explain to me this...

if you put in 15psi of boost pressure into the CC and compress it at 9.0:1 then the internal pressure cc will be 135psi So how comes when you do a compression test, unboosted, a good reading will come out at around 170psi?

Obv when running you will also have to account for heat which increases pressure. Buttt how do you calculate the Combustion pressure?

[Dangerous]

Don't forget mine was 350 at the hubs.....(so around the 400 mark flywheel) It lasted about 1000 miles with the BIG ole turbo on it....I think you should defo go the forged route mate if you want to go over 350 at the flywheel......and be reliable for 20'000 miles !!!

[steve b]

is a stock engine going to like 1.5-1.7bar pressures to reach this 350bhp area on a ct26 hybrid???

its the combustion pressures they are referring to bud.

Can someone explain to me this...

if you put in 15psi of boost pressure into the CC and compress it at 9.0:1 then the internal pressure cc will be 135psi So how comes when you do a compression test, unboosted, a good reading will come out at around 170psi?

Obv when running you will also have to account for heat which increases pressure. Buttt how do you calculate the Combustion pressure?

Combustion pressure is not like that, its the pressure the explosion makes, all that depends on is how much Air + fuel + how close to TDC it occures.

Det can cause huge spikes in pressure, which is why hybrid CT26's are a problem at high boost the charge gets to hot, det occures = big cylinder pressures, bye bye ringlands.

[Harry]

Good article well done.

[Johnny G]

Good article well done.

I'm trying to change my mind, but is that not slightly condescending?

[Harry]

Good article well done.

I'm trying to change my mind, but is that not slightly condescending?

Hi John thanks for the reply.It simply Is what It Is a compliment on technical Input.The psychology of computer science and Internet user behaviour Is beyond my understanding and maybe others here at the car club.You are a deep man my man.

[simmo490]

Good article well done.

I'm trying to change my mind, but is that not slightly condescending?