MK1 1.6 N/A Upgrade...

[MegatronUK]

(cc-ed to Yahoo IMOC list...)

I'm in the middle of battling the rot on my newly acquired late-MK1 T-bar ... hopefully it should get done over christmas/early new year.

Although the engine seems to run well despite its 90k miles, In the long term, if the car comes out of surgery looking half decent, I plan on replacing the engine in the early part of next year.

The most common choice seems to be to fit the 4AGZE from the MK1 or from an import Jap model hatchback. Although the 20V is something I've seen in a couple of cars on the web - none/not many in the UK though? Has anyone experience of driving both, back-to-back?

I like the idea of keeping basically the same engine as what is already in the car (in terms of size and weight) - although the 3SGTE appeals (my father has an ST185), I'd rather keep the 1600; so that's why I'm looking at either the SC or 20V.

Does anyone have any advice as to either one to go for? I know its a bit of work to fit either; but I assume that the SC will be easier as it was fit in the MK1 anyway. Both late models of each engine seem to be around the 160bhp mark, so a pretty standard unit would be what I was looking at (e.g perhaps only a smaller pulley on the SC or filters + stainless exhaust on the 20V).

I've seen the complete engines and acilliaries from both Fensport and also from jbmotorsport.co.uk - who seem to import them from Malaysia - are those prices (~£1300 for a late A111 4AGZE and the same for the 20V 'blacktop') pretty much what everyone else is paying?
Apart from the supplied engine + accessories, are there any 'gotchas' to look out for when sticking either lump into the little MK1? Any parts that are particulary hard to get hold of?

Lots of questions, I know

-John

-= MK4 Supra Twin Turbo (and now a mk1 MR2!)
-= MK1 Escort powered by Vauxhall Redtop
-= Lotus 7 replica powered by 2.1 Pinto
-= In-car computer media system

[shish]

the GZE is the way to go, the 20v is a good engine but all the power is right up at the top end which means you have to thrash the ar$e off it to get anywhere.

a GTE is good if you want plenty of power but the conversion is not as straight forward as a 4AGZE engine.

The GZE is relialbe, easy to install and cheap to modify to an easy 180hp, will give you tons of torque throughout the rpm range and sounds mental too!

Myself and Lauren have done a GZE conversion and can offer plenty of advice. In fact we may even have a 4A-GZE engine to buy if your interested?

--------------------------------
1987 MR2 SC
1989 MR2 SC Super Edition
http://www.mr2.net

[MegatronUK]

I think the GZE is probably what I'm going to go for then.... to be honest, from what I saw, the 20V did seem to be a bit more complex.

I need to get a list of parts for the conversion really and gradually get them together... I'm not going through another experience like the Escort, where I bought most of the stuff within a month or two

Are those prices from Fensport and JB reasonable for a late GZE, then? Or is there a hidden supply of crated motors that you pick up for pocket change?

[Lauren]

GZE engines are expensive because they are rare.

I have a complete conversion for sale which is a late spec Levin engine (it is stronger better torque than MR2SC engines plus its slightly newer too).

Have everything you need including hard pipes for intercooling and original SC engine lid and intercooler.

So basically you will be able to swop the whole lot over and drive away.

My engine produces 182bhp & 180lbft torque.

lots of pics and stuff on my website:

http://www.trackdayqueen.com

[MegatronUK]

Aha, those pages will come in really useful, thanks Lauren!

[Lauren]

No probs.

Let us know if you are interested in buying the SC engine and stuff. The pics are actually of what will be for sale. They were taken last year when we did a re-shell of my earlier car. All my stuff was via Fensport.

[PW@Woodsport]

ah well,my first post on the new forum and it might start an argument!

Hi john,nice meeting you and your dad at the garage,you know what im going to say but might as well say again for the forum...you will be dissapointed with a GZE or 20V conversion compared to your supra...they will both feel painfully slow in comparison,if it wasnt for your impressive list of cars id say go for a GZE or 20V as a starter project but you are used to much faster weapons than these.My advice is to go for the 3s-gte,it turns the mk1 into a raw animal that puts it on the same power to weight ratio as a porsche 911 turbo....im only worried that you will spend all that money doing a 20V or GZE only to hanker for more straight away.

If you are going to go for a 20V or GZE go for the GZE and take laurens advice on those,she pretty much knows them inside out,but if you want your mk1 to perform anything like your supra (trust me with a GTE in there it will) then 3s everytime.

[BenF]

ah well,my first post on the new forum and it might start an argument!

If you are going to go for a 20V or GZE go for the GZE and take laurens advice on those,she pretty much knows them inside out,but if you want your mk1 to perform anything like your supra (trust me with a GTE in there it will) then 3s everytime.

FWIW, at the Donny trackday I took my new Mk1. Around the track, I was happily staying with Turbos in a straight line upto 60-70mph - above that they were pulling away a car length at a time. I was quite suprised at that, I thought the difference would be more pronounced.

If you're looking for extra low down torque for use around the town, then a SC conversion would be my choice.

But as a trackday tool, I'm going to stick to NA power for the Mk1.

[Lauren]

FWIW, at the Donny trackday I took my new Mk1. Around the track, I was happily staying with Turbos in a straight line upto 60-70mph - above that they were pulling away a car length at a time. I was quite suprised at that, I thought the difference would be more pronounced.

If you're looking for extra low down torque for use around the town, then a SC conversion would be my choice.

But as a trackday tool, I'm going to stick to NA power for the Mk1.

Agreed, i suspect on a circuit like anglesey the power advantage of a tubby would be eroded further still.

The SC does make a devastating road car though, quick and lots of torque. There is I guess also the added gooning potential of having that extra torque.

[MegatronUK]

Hey Paul, wondered when I'd get to catch you online

At the end of the day the MR2 was just a spur of the moment purchase with very little currently invested in it.... we picked it up initially to either do up and sell on; making a few quid, or for me to use as a runabout instead of the Supra (that kick up the bum from the twin turbos gets me every time, but the fuel bills and amount of miles I'm putting on it are not appreciated quite as much).

As for performance, well, before the Supra I had a Rover 220 turbo coupe (200hp, 0-60 6.1s)... and before that a little Metro GTi (105hp, 0-60 8s)... so I reckon I'm looking for performance levels between the two; something cheaper to run than the Supra.. but that is still fun and with a bit of poke. The Supra is great - I adore it; but I'm not really bothered about attaining that level of performance and the Escort, well, its a lunatic - acceleration wise, but my god is it loud and unpractical ... next year I'm going to see if I can run it as a road car with any level of success

Really it all depends on whether my father and I can get the MR2 to a condition where it looks good and that running it for a good few years is practical, with a very small budget. The budget for engine transplants doesnt exist yet... but I highly doubt it would be over a grand....

... oh yeah, it also depends on whether I can convince him to do the conversion work ... he keeps muttering things like "I'm getting too old for this..."

[PW@Woodsport]

ah i see where you are coming from,you might want to consider just upgrading the 4a-ge instead,myself and another guy (Mr H) are working on fitting big bike carbs onto the 4a-ge.Basically it involves leaving the fuel injection system on the engine but binning the intake side and replacing it with four throttle bodies and a custom air box.It will mean a custom manifold but shouldnt be too hard to knock one of those up,the next step after that is using them as proper carbs but this is much more involved and will need a different fuel pump,standalone ecu to control ignition (im thinking megajolt from the megasquirt boys in conjunction with the ford EDIS4 set up) and a xxxx load of mapping and jetting work on a RR.....going this way with a good exhaust and maybe cams will produce some pretty good power.

Then theres always the 4a-gte option,buy laurens SC engine and remove the SC gear from it,make or buy a turbo manifold (lauren has one i believe?) and run a small turbo on it....the ecu will be just as happy fuelling for a turbo as it is for a SC (pressure is pessure after all)....

If you do ever decide to go all out and 3s-gte the car then get in touch,it cant be compared to any of the mods or conversions above,its in a totally different power league,much like your TT supra but with the potential to go much much quicker.Big benefit is it doesnt lose that special mk1 handling ,now ive sold her i only wish my V6 performs half as well.

[spudgun]

Still ain't had my carbs turn up yet!

Rung the guy up last week and shot a rocket up his ar$e.
Genuine mistake it seems, and he was very apologetic.
We shall see.

[spudgun]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far Mega, is that if you tune the NA up a bit, you can keep the stock transmission. If you go over to the GZE lump, you are gonna need a supercharger box and driveshafts as well. If you increase power on an NA you don't really increase the torque, so the box can stick it. hth.

[MegatronUK]

Any idea on prices for an SC box and driveshafts then? I'm going to go out on a limb here and and guess they are pretty hard to pick up

Will the SC just destroy the box immediately... or is it a case of drive reasonably and it will be ok?

[LimeyMk1]

Nice little source for info on turbo is www.4agte.com.

Lauren does this mean you don't need the turbo manifold and down pipe you imported from the States? I'm building a 4AGTE at the moment (early days) and need a manifold . ('Scuse the hijack)

Chris

Edit: Helps if I look on the for sale section

[shish]

SC boxes with LSD can be bought for around £300 from fensport, you'll need to mod the gear linkage and use SC driveshafts. The driveshafts are the hard parts to find.

The NA box will happily cope with the GZE, it wont lunch it straight away and will certainly last for 10s of thousands of miles, if it's in good condition. A E51 box will basically mean you will never have to worry about it.

in summary, E51 is nice but not essential

Any idea on prices for an SC box and driveshafts then? I'm going to go out on a limb here and and guess they are pretty hard to pick up

Will the SC just destroy the box immediately... or is it a case of drive reasonably and it will be ok?

--------------------------------
1987 MR2 SC
1989 MR2 SC Super Edition
http://www.mr2.net

[spudgun]

Well there you go, you live and learn. I would have thought the standard box would have gave up pretty quickly as there a weak point in the mk1 as it is, but I bow to better knowledge.

Paul, carbs turned up today. Absolute beautys. 40mm chokes and only 20 mm shorter than the heads inlet spacing, so not to much tappering in to match em up. Came with some nice rubber trumpets as well which will go nice in the custom airbox. All i need now is an inlet gasket to make up the manifold plate, and will need one of them at some point anyway.

Full steam ahead after xmas.

[BenF]

The SC does make a devastating road car though, quick and lots of torque. There is I guess also the added gooning potential of having that extra torque.

mmmm Goonage potential is important to me

In the wet though with A539s there was more than enough power to allow some gooning in the Mk1, I just need to spend more time getting to know the car on a damp circuit.

[Lauren]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far Mega, is that if you tune the NA up a bit, you can keep the stock transmission. If you go over to the GZE lump, you are gonna need a supercharger box and driveshafts as well. If you increase power on an NA you don't really increase the torque, so the box can stick it. hth.

Sorry but this is totally untrue. You can run an SC on the stock box with no problems whatsoever. Obviously it helps to have an NA box which is in good condition.

I ran an NA box for a year but it was suffering from 5th gear pop out (before the conversion). I put in an SC box and have managed to lunch that (but thats another story).

Mark is having the box to nick the LSD out of it but i have the driveshafts which are by far the hardest thing to find when it comes to putting an SC box in an NA.

[PW@Woodsport]

nice one spud,im still waiting for my FZR genesis carbs to turn up,it will be well after xmas before i make a start....if you need an inlet gasket for a template let me know,ive got a few here you can have or a t-vis rail if you prefer (would be good to have someone ally weld some tubes onto the t-vis rail and then gut the rail) that would bolt straight on without the need to remove the two longer manifold studs at each end,but theres no hardship in doing that anyway...rambling now,give me the nod if you'd like a gasket or rail.