As a few of you know I picked up a MKI for next to nothing.
As expected with any car that costs next to nothing, I am begining to find the faults the previous owner did not disclose.
When I saw the car, it started fine and was idling fine.
But after the MKI was dropped off on my drive and I managed to start it (needed to be jump started with booster cables as battery was only reading 6.9V).
The MKI is idling in a way I have never seen on any car before. It's revving up and down automatically between 1000rpm and 2000rpm - almost as if someone is steadily pushing the accellerator (vrrrmmm vrrrmmm vrrrmmm vrrrmmm).
Anyone experienced this before with any car? Any solutions ideas?
MKI Idling Strangeness
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- Lauren
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
This will be due to air in the cooling system. Give the coolant system a bleed and top up, this should cure it.
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
Lauren to the rescue Somehow I just knew you would know
Cheers for that!
Just looked and the coolant level is a little lower than half way so it does make sense
Cheers for that!
Just looked and the coolant level is a little lower than half way so it does make sense
- Lauren
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
The ECU reads the coolant temp round the throttle housing, look at the two pipes that connect to it and its obviously quite high up in the coolant system, so if the coolant level is low it will get constantly changing readings as air passes through it.
No probs glad to help.
No probs glad to help.
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
The ECU reads the coolant temp round the throttle housing, look at the two pipes that connect to it and its obviously quite high up in the coolant system, so if the coolant level is low it will get constantly changing readings as air passes through it.
It does what? lol you surprise me lauren,thats nowhere near how it works.
G theres one of two reasons why your idle is bouncing...
1)as mentioned you have air in the cooling system
2)your coldstart waxstat valve is stuck open
Fault 1)The air has entered the system for one of a few reasons
a)you have a water leak somewhere,radiator,matrix,heater pipes etc
b)you have a cracked expansion bottle cap
c)the pressure cap is faulty
d)you have a head gasket fault (mk1's can appear to be fine,will even idle perfectly but can still have a gasket fault)
e)faulty water pump
Simply bleeding it will temporarily cure the problem but it WILL return due to one of the above.
Fault 2)No matter if theres air in the system or not if the waxstat is stuck open you will get bouncing idle when the engine gets warm,this isnt as common as fault 1.
The bouncing idle happens because of a conflict....if for whatever reason above the coldstart waxstat is open it allows extra air to be drawn past the throttle butterfly,its this extra air that gives us the fast idle when cold,it duplicates you slightly opening the throttle manually.During cols running the ecu to some degree ignores the sensors...Now the green EFI coolant sensor on the head tells the ecu when the engine is warm,the ecu now starts to listen to the MAP sensor which says "throttle partially open" due to the extra air being drawn in via the waxstat.But the ecu is also being told by the TPS (throttle position sensor) that NO throttle is being applied and this is what throws the ecu into a conflict as it battles between the two sensors to control fuelling....if you listen while its surging you can hear the injectors clicking on and off,MAP says "more fuel" TPS says "idling,No more fuel".
Bottom line is you either have air trapped around the throttle body or a stuck open waxstat.
- Lauren
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
I know t'was a bad explanation..
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
LOL go stand in the corner and dont come out until told. and i want 1000 lines
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
LOL I had heard rumours you two never agree on anything! (:
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
ahh the cunning wax stat strikes another victim, me too s-g! woodsie's the man with all the info! No doubt if you look down the forum for (wax stat) my post last week it will be very similar in discription. Speak to paul to rectify your problem
stu
stu
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
Well seeing as the coolant level in the resevoir is dangerously low, I'll start there. I reckon there's gotta be a leak somewhere if the coolant is that low.
I'll fill/bleed and re-fill the system this afternoon and try get to the root of the problem.
What type of coolant should be used? All my book says is "use the same type that is already in the system". Is it only the "For Life" stuff the MKII's use or are there alternatives?
I'll fill/bleed and re-fill the system this afternoon and try get to the root of the problem.
What type of coolant should be used? All my book says is "use the same type that is already in the system". Is it only the "For Life" stuff the MKII's use or are there alternatives?
- Lauren
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
System-G wrote:Well seeing as the coolant level in the resevoir is dangerously low, I'll start there. I reckon there's gotta be a leak somewhere if the coolant is that low.
I'll fill/bleed and re-fill the system this afternoon and try get to the root of the problem.
What type of coolant should be used? All my book says is "use the same type that is already in the system". Is it only the "For Life" stuff the MKII's use or are there alternatives?
Just use any Glycol based coolant. It is a myth that you can only use forlife/longlife.
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
Thanks Lauren - I thought so too
This "expansion bottle" - is that the white-ish see-through plastic container that you check the level of coolant in?
Appologies for pestering with so many Q's
Cheers
This "expansion bottle" - is that the white-ish see-through plastic container that you check the level of coolant in?
Appologies for pestering with so many Q's
Cheers
- Lauren
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
System-G wrote:Thanks Lauren - I thought so too
This "expansion bottle" - is that the white-ish see-through plastic container that you check the level of coolant in?
Appologies for pestering with so many Q's
Cheers
yep thats it, though to really check the coolant you need to take off the pressure cap on the cooling system itself.
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
The car started and idled fine this morning - none of this bouncing on the revs...
Still the expansion bottle is very low in level. So will be topping up and bleeding the system. The cap on the bottle is quite perished and does look to broken/cracked too. I hope the MKI in the scrappy down the road has a good one. Need a few other bits from it too...
They describe how to do it in the owners manual so I'll give it my best shot. May proove difficult getting to some of the bleed valves with the car parked on the drive
Will let you know how I get on.
Still the expansion bottle is very low in level. So will be topping up and bleeding the system. The cap on the bottle is quite perished and does look to broken/cracked too. I hope the MKI in the scrappy down the road has a good one. Need a few other bits from it too...
They describe how to do it in the owners manual so I'll give it my best shot. May proove difficult getting to some of the bleed valves with the car parked on the drive
Will let you know how I get on.
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
Most Toyotas of the same age will have the same expansion tank cap, which makes it nice and easy finding a replacement.
- Lauren
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
System-G wrote:The car started and idled fine this morning - none of this bouncing on the revs...
Still the expansion bottle is very low in level. So will be topping up and bleeding the system. The cap on the bottle is quite perished and does look to broken/cracked too. I hope the MKI in the scrappy down the road has a good one. Need a few other bits from it too...
They describe how to do it in the owners manual so I'll give it my best shot. May proove difficult getting to some of the bleed valves with the car parked on the drive
Will let you know how I get on.
you can get to all the bleed valves that you need to easily enough without going under the car.
Basically open the bonnet
One on the radiator (n/side)
1 next to heater matrix pipes, just a bit toward the centre from the servo.
1 on gearbox (this should already have a hose connected to it that goes to the expansion tank.
You will need to connect the washer type hoses to the rad bleed valve and the heater matrix bleed. If you are lucky you should find the hoses behind the plastic shroud that the spare rests against.
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
System-G wrote:Will let you know how I get on.
yup, let us know!
There seems to be lots of new people and new mk1's appearing on imoc - good to see! (: and the cooling / waxstat seems to be the numero uno problem...
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
vashy wrote:
There seems to be lots of new people and new mk1's appearing on imoc - good to see! (: and the cooling / waxstat seems to be the numero uno problem...
You just paraphased me!! Lol
Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
I haven't had time to bleed the system yet. Work kinda pays the bills and supplies a little extra the MKI needs so have rather busy with those commitments Hopefully will have time this weekend to give it a flush, refill & bleed. Will update.
All the tubes I need for bleeding the system are on the car - right where the manual states
On the lookout for an expansion bottle cap that's in good nick, if anyone knows of any anywhere?
May also need a manual choke, but I'll sort it through the MKI club depending if the waxstat is sticking again or not
All the tubes I need for bleeding the system are on the car - right where the manual states
On the lookout for an expansion bottle cap that's in good nick, if anyone knows of any anywhere?
May also need a manual choke, but I'll sort it through the MKI club depending if the waxstat is sticking again or not
- Lauren
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Re: MKI Idling Strangeness
System-G wrote:I haven't had time to bleed the system yet. Work kinda pays the bills and supplies a little extra the MKI needs so have rather busy with those commitments Hopefully will have time this weekend to give it a flush, refill & bleed. Will update.
All the tubes I need for bleeding the system are on the car - right where the manual states
On the lookout for an expansion bottle cap that's in good nick, if anyone knows of any anywhere?
May also need a manual choke, but I'll sort it through the MKI club depending if the waxstat is sticking again or not
New expansion caps are £15ish from MrT. Exensive but they are made of better quality materials that are unlikely to crack or perish.