Limits of the st205 chargecooler?

[Chris]

Can anyone tell me how far you can go with a st205CC? As some of you know, I am currently building my engine. I will be using the extreme boost kit and a Garrett GT30R. Would a st205CC be any use to me? I am trying to find the best way of cooling without wrecking my boot. Any help would be great

Cheers,

Chris.

[screech]

how about the spearco chargecooler?

[Mark Edwards]

ST205 should do the job ok my friend.

[screech]

all depends on what power you want though i suppose

[Dave Goodhand]

Technically the chargecooler wont limit the power available.. its limits will come where it can't cool the air/water quick enough, so your intake temps rise (hence letting in less Oxygen in the air capacity).

This can be down to how much the turbo heats up the air, and the flow rate (if I remember correctly) for the given turbo at given boost pressures (Ie a large turbo can create boost by spinning slower than a small one) So it'll all be down the the application. If you can find a compressor map for your turbo then you should be able to see where the excess heat is generated and if you're running into these boost levels it'd be an idea to keep an eye on the intake temps and maybe CC water temp.. to check that everything is ok. I don't know at what temperature air into the CC is the point at which the CC cannot cool it anymore though.

[jonno]

Technically the chargecooler wont limit the power available.. its limits will come where it can't cool the air/water quick enough, so your intake temps rise (hence letting in less Oxygen in the air capacity).

This can be down to how much the turbo heats up the air, and the flow rate (if I remember correctly) for the given turbo at given boost pressures (Ie a large turbo can create boost by spinning slower than a small one) So it'll all be down the the application. If you can find a compressor map for your turbo then you should be able to see where the excess heat is generated and if you're running into these boost levels it'd be an idea to keep an eye on the intake temps and maybe CC water temp.. to check that everything is ok. I don't know at what temperature air into the CC is the point at which the CC cannot cool it anymore though.

Sorry mate but thats complete rubbish!.

ALL Intercoolers have flow limits, after which point you start to get significant pressure drop across the core. This means that the turbo has to work harder, which also restricts the exhaust. Essentially if the CC core is too small it will restrict power. The ST205 core has been proven to about 400bhp, however the expectation is that it will begin to struggle at around 450bhp.

The cooling ability of the ST205 core is not in question , it has been proven over and over again. Its not the best or most efficient CC core available but its not bad!

Neil.

[MR2Mania]

Can anyone tell me how far you can go with a st205CC? As some of you know, I am currently building my engine. I will be using the extreme boost kit and a Garrett GT30R. Would a st205CC be any use to me? I am trying to find the best way of cooling without wrecking my boot. Any help would be great

Cheers,

Chris.

Chris, is that the same kit effecting as AndyF is running?

What are your power or boost goals?

Really need to know the answers to these to give you a decent answer...

[MR2Mania]

how about the spearco chargecooler?

The problems with the Spearco chargecoolers are as follows:
1) the larger one needs a fair bit of work to fit right, as it won't naturally sit in the place you'd ideally like, so some custom work needs doing
2) They offer 2 cores, the larger core being double the size in terms of cooling, but the problem here is that it also pretty much doubles the pressure drop across the CC (as you now have 2 cores for the air to flow though!), and it doesn't increase the actual flow area (it remains the same). The thinking is that if you want to run the extra power, you'll be running more boost, so the extra pressure is the penalty you have to pay for the extra cooling you need for the extra boost.
3) The cores are really more designed for flow rather than for cooling, hence why big power outputs require the thicker core to get the cooling.

It would have been interesting to see some data for these. I've no doubt that you can get good power out of either core, but what is the cooling like after sustained boost? Do they heat soak?

[skinthespin]

If you could cool the water in the CC better wouldnt this help? For example the st205 has a water spray bar on the pre rad for when things get toastie, maybe adding another rad or something along those lines?

[MR2Mania]

If you could cool the water in the CC better wouldnt this help? For example the st205 has a water spray bar on the pre rad for when things get toastie, maybe adding another rad or something along those lines?

Personally, I've found a limitation in my current hybrid-CT26-ST205CC combo, in that at sustained high boost, the system does get warmer than I'd like (although nowhere near as bad as when I had the same turbo with a Spearco AAIC!).

What makes the ST205CC so good at cooling is also the Achilles heel that requires it to have a decent size rad too.

I don't think spray bars, etc, make much of a difference. One of the things I wanted to try is installing a reservoir for the CC water to see what effect this had, but never got round to it, and ambient temps at the moment are too low anyway to test the effectiveness of this (that, and the fact that I've taken the car off the road now, anyway!).

[Chris]

Chris, is that the same kit effecting as AndyF is running?

What are your power or boost goals?

Really need to know the answers to these to give you a decent answer...

Yes, it's his kit, Andy said that the CC will not fit due to the height of the exhaust manifold. However I was thinking of remotely mounting it. I am hoping for approx 450-500bhp....With a bit of luck [-o<

[MR2Mania]

Chris, is that the same kit effecting as AndyF is running?

What are your power or boost goals?

Really need to know the answers to these to give you a decent answer...

Yes, it's his kit, Andy said that the CC will not fit due to the height of the exhaust manifold. However I was thinking of remotely mounting it. I am hoping for approx 450-500bhp....With a bit of luck [-o<

OK, I'm guessing that you'll need to be running 1.6-1.8bar to get that kinda power (we'll see when Andy gets his fully set up). I think the ST205CC will *just* be able to cool that if you spend a bit of time giving it good pre-rad cooling, but I'm not sure whether ST205CC will flow well enough above 450bhp. Andy's got the TTE ST205CC which has a bigger core, so that won't give us a good enough indication I'm afraid, and no one else has really pushed the ST205CC that high yet (apart from Fensport, although they too say they ditched the ST205CC at this power level).

[Chris]

Going Friday arn't you for mapping on Andys? Tobe fair Dino I'm just looking into ideas, I will still be usind my Aquamist 2d system (50/50water/meths) as well. Just don't wanna cut my boot up! Arn't you doing a CC KIt? Whats that gunna be able to flow?

[MR2Mania]

Going Friday arn't you for mapping on Andys?

That *is* the plan, mate, although Andy's still trying to organise the dyno time. It's still touch and go (just been on the phone with him).

Tobe fair Dino I'm just looking into ideas, I will still be usind my Aquamist 2d system (50/50water/meths) as well.

That's fair, mate. At the end of the day, with these things, you've got to think and plan ahead, otherwise it takes eons to get it all together!

Just don't wanna cut my boot up!

Don't blame you, mate. I'm always loathe to start cutting and drilling holes into the car if I can get away with it.

Arn't you doing a CC KIt? Whats that gunna be able to flow?

That's kinda really slowed down now, because of the problem in finding a core for the CC that I can 100% rely on (reliability wise). I'm having to look abroad for the source of the core at the moment. When that's done, that should defo flow 500bhp's worth of air, if not more.

[Chris]

Well, by time mines built up, your CC might be in production Mainly waiting on parts at mo. Reason I was asking bout the 205 CC is there's a few for sale at the moment. I might wait and see instead.