[Mk2] [Turbo] Rev3 cams in a rev 2 head?

[Bear87]

Hi guys just spoke to ian at westfield motors in rayleigh he was really helpful and arranged about getting my car in to sort the smoking issue (overfueling)
When i mentioned it has aftermarket cams he suggested he may have some rev 3 cams to try in it.

So question is can you fit rev 3 cams in the rev 2 head? I know doing a rev 3 head conversion is more ideal just on a budget or should i try and find some rev 2 ones?

Cheers

[mrdb]

Yes just need to shim the valves again.

[CalMac]

I may be wrong but I vaguely remember that the Rev 1/2 cams are actually a slight upgrade over the Rev 3+ cams. May also be talking complete rubbish though so don't take my word for it, might just be Rev 1 NA cams into a Rev 3 turbo head or something like that

[Bear87]

Thanks guys. I would like to continue to use my aftermarket cams but i think they are looking at using the rev 3 ones for fault finding as they have them at the shop.

As for doing valve shims are the measurements of clearence the same for oem as would be for aftermarket?
We think the car has brian crowler stage 2 cams but i dont have any original paperwork etc

[rev2rich]

FYI HKS have stop make rev2 Cams and have no stock

[Bear87]

FYI HKS have stop make rev2 Cams and have no stock

Cheers rich if i do need to go back to stock do you have any oem cams about?

[rev2rich]

Let me check.....

[Bear87]

Ta mate no rush they cant look at car for another 2 weeks anyway. Although be handy to know if you do so at least have options

[C35Rob]

I may be wrong but I vaguely remember that the Rev 1/2 cams are actually a slight upgrade over the Rev 3+ cams. May also be talking complete rubbish though so don't take my word for it, might just be Rev 1 NA cams into a Rev 3 turbo head or something like that

other way round, rev 3+ turbo cams are a little better than rev 2,

Gen 2 3SGTE
In: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 8/48 )
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 56/0)

Gen 3 3SGTE
In: 240deg, 8.7mm lift (timing 7/53)
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 50/6)

there are variations of stock cams to get a little more lift/duration than the stock turbo set up..

i.e a rev 3+ NA inlet cam and a rev 2 NA exhaust cam would give you:

In: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65)
Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7)

or the same rev 3+ NA inlet cam with a BEAMS exhaust cam, which is also 244 degrees duration but 9.2mm lift.


I've got a Rev 3 NA inlet cam in the garage, I'm trying to track down a beams exhaust cam... (or gen 2 NA)

[Bear87]

I may be wrong but I vaguely remember that the Rev 1/2 cams are actually a slight upgrade over the Rev 3+ cams. May also be talking complete rubbish though so don't take my word for it, might just be Rev 1 NA cams into a Rev 3 turbo head or something like that

other way round, rev 3+ turbo cams are a little better than rev 2,

Gen 2 3SGTE
In: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 8/48 )
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 56/0)

Gen 3 3SGTE
In: 240deg, 8.7mm lift (timing 7/53)
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 50/6)

there are variations of stock cams to get a little more lift/duration than the stock turbo set up..

i.e a rev 3+ NA inlet cam and a rev 2 NA exhaust cam would give you:

In: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65)
Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7)

or the same rev 3+ NA inlet cam with a BEAMS exhaust cam, which is also 244 degrees duration but 9.2mm lift.


I've got a Rev 3 NA inlet cam in the garage, I'm trying to track down a beams exhaust cam... (or gen 2 NA)

Out of intrest Rob what is the meaning of "(timing 7/65)" for example?

Never had a car with cams in i didnt know if the timing would have to be advanced or retarded or it vernier pulleys were required to set them up. I have now installed vernier pulleys when i did timing belt but are currently at 0 deg

[C35Rob]

I may be wrong but I vaguely remember that the Rev 1/2 cams are actually a slight upgrade over the Rev 3+ cams. May also be talking complete rubbish though so don't take my word for it, might just be Rev 1 NA cams into a Rev 3 turbo head or something like that

other way round, rev 3+ turbo cams are a little better than rev 2,

Gen 2 3SGTE
In: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 8/48 )
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 56/0)

Gen 3 3SGTE
In: 240deg, 8.7mm lift (timing 7/53)
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 50/6)

there are variations of stock cams to get a little more lift/duration than the stock turbo set up..

i.e a rev 3+ NA inlet cam and a rev 2 NA exhaust cam would give you:

In: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65)
Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7)

or the same rev 3+ NA inlet cam with a BEAMS exhaust cam, which is also 244 degrees duration but 9.2mm lift.


I've got a Rev 3 NA inlet cam in the garage, I'm trying to track down a beams exhaust cam... (or gen 2 NA)

Out of intrest Rob what is the meaning of "(timing 7/65)" for example?

Never had a car with cams in i didnt know if the timing would have to be advanced or retarded or it vernier pulleys were required to set them up. I have now installed vernier pulleys when i did timing belt but are currently at 0 deg

it's the valve opening/closing timing.

inlet 7/65 means the inlet vv opens @ 7 degrees BTDC and closes at 65 degrees ABDC you can add both numbers together + 180 to get the duration in degrees. (7+65+180 = 252)

exhaust 57/7 means the exhaust vv opens @ 57 degrees before BDC and closes 7 degrees after TDC, thus 57+7+180 = 244 degrees duration.

this means the above combo has 14 degrees of overlap.

your aftermarket cams need to be installed in accordance with the cam card and a degree wheel, you can't just drop them in and expect them to work, factors such as head gasket thickness, block and/or head skimming/resurfacing will effect the valve timing events

[Bear87]

Thats awesome thanks rob gonna educate myself in cams this weekend!

The engine was professionally built with the cams but annoyingly i have no cam card in fact i have very little paperwork and its been an issue throughout build.

Im assuming there is a way to do it without? I hope its something my local mr2 specialist can deal with!

[C35Rob]

http://www.briancrower.com/makes/toyota ... c_0351.pdf

if they are BC stage 2 then that's the cam card, easy to check if they are BC stg 2 by measuing a lobe with a micrometer to see if the lift tallies up

[Bear87]

Your a gent thanks rob
When we inspected the cams they have a very poor manufactures mark on them which BC cams had told us isnt unusual but did match general shape of logo etc.
Will measure them up on weekend and hopefully that will confirm.

Cheers again for your advice