Wideband or Lambda sensor?

[Gullzter]

Im going to be getting my car ready shortly so I don't get caught out close to bringing it back to road.
Question is what would you say is more important as it seems information on the net is vague?

Fully forged engine with big turbo kit, external wastegate and screamer, charge cooler set up, 3" turbo back system, running wastegate pressure 0.8bar and mapped upto 1.6bar (425hub horse power) if any of this makes a difference

[C35Rob]

I'm not sure what the question is?

A 'wideband' is a short name for an aftermarket lambda (o2) sensor that reads in a wide range - i.e typically a 0-5v output that correlates typically to 10.00:1 afr to 20.00:1 afr (0.68-1.36 lambda)

A narrowband lambda sensor operates on a smaller range and will tell the ECU only if it is lean, soichiometric (14.7:1 for petrol - 1.00 lambda) or rich which the ECU uses to calculate closed loop fuel trims

You want/need a high quality wideband kit, does your ECU have a provision for wideband input - I.e can it do auto tune, long term fuel trim etc? If so then speak to someone who is well versed in calibrating that ECU and ask them which kit they prefer using, the ECU manufacturer may sell their own sensor (will be a Bosch Lsu 4.9 sensor probably) and controller

The most common aftermarket kits would be the innovate MTX-L, or AEM uego, but there are plenty of others.. PLX devices for example.

[Gullzter]

Some stuff on the net makes it sound like 2 completely different things so I was unsure, however how you explained it was initially what I thought, only when I started reading up got my doubts!

Basically I'm going to order a sensor to keep an eye on things however for this summer I'll just plug it into a gauge, then next summer have it wired and programmed into whatever ecu I go for (most likely a syvecs s6), and I've been told by several syvecs users to go for an NTK lambda sensor because the Bosch and others don't function well with syvecs.

Currently have a link g1 XLEM, not sure if it has that function and didn't really want to send it back to get more things added to map, but worth a mention to see if it does have that function and how much time/cost it would take to tune it in vs just getting a wideband gauge.

[jimGTS]

if you just want a gauge to keep an eye on AFRs, most wideband gauges are good.

ive been running a AEM uego for years, still runs well and the sensor lasted 5+ years.

[Gullzter]

if you just want a gauge to keep an eye on AFRs, most wideband gauges are good.

ive been running a AEM uego for years, still runs well and the sensor lasted 5+ years.

That's what I was going to go for however, a few friends with syvecs ecu have said the sensor that comes with the AEM doesn't work well with syvecs, and considering I will only have the car on the road 2-3months over summer I'd rather get the correct sensor for syvecs and just buy a gauge itself that works well with it, save me buying another sensor for the sake of 2-3months.
I like the look of the AEM gauge so I'll probably get the gauge and buy the NTK sensor that other syvecs users have.

[jimGTS]

sure go for what works best with your ecu.

many have no desire to incorporate the gauge into the ecu, so a standalone gauge/sensor is fine.



have to check if that sensor is compatible with the aem gauge though.

[androo007]

just make sure the sensor is bunged in further down the downpipe - Ash had a few incidents where the stock (higher) location casued issues from being hot hot hot

[tiff_lee]

a few friends with syvecs ecu have said the sensor that comes with the AEM doesn't work well with syvecs

I'd probably look into this more, the AEM has an analogue output which can be fed into aftermarket ECU's so it wouldn't really be the sensor that's the issue but more the AEM output signal.

[Gullzter]

a few friends with syvecs ecu have said the sensor that comes with the AEM doesn't work well with syvecs

I'd probably look into this more, the AEM has an analogue output which can be fed into aftermarket ECU's so it wouldn't really be the sensor that's the issue but more the AEM output signal.

A couple of them are still running AEM gauge and I've spoke to a couple of syvecs tuners and they have said the same thing, that the sensor that comes with AEM doesn't work with syvecs, my mates supra had issues trying it.

[Gullzter]

just make sure the sensor is bunged in further down the downpipe - Ash had a few incidents where the stock (higher) location casued issues from being hot hot hot

Downpipe already removed, ready to be drilled out

[tiff_lee]

a few friends with syvecs ecu have said the sensor that comes with the AEM doesn't work well with syvecs

I'd probably look into this more, the AEM has an analogue output which can be fed into aftermarket ECU's so it wouldn't really be the sensor that's the issue but more the AEM output signal.

A couple of them are still running AEM gauge and I've spoke to a couple of syvecs tuners and they have said the same thing, that the sensor that comes with AEM doesn't work with syvecs, my mates supra had issues trying it.

Be that as it may the point I was making is the AEM (bosch) sensor isn't connected to the aftermarket ecu syvec, it is the analogue output from the AEM UEGO that is used.

Bosch sensor ---- AEM UEGO --- Analogue output >>> To third party ECU/data logger

[jimGTS]

good point, i forgot about all the extra wires from the AEM to connect to an ECU

[Gullzter]

I'd probably look into this more, the AEM has an analogue output which can be fed into aftermarket ECU's so it wouldn't really be the sensor that's the issue but more the AEM output signal.

A couple of them are still running AEM gauge and I've spoke to a couple of syvecs tuners and they have said the same thing, that the sensor that comes with AEM doesn't work with syvecs, my mates supra had issues trying it.

Be that as it may the point I was making is the AEM (bosch) sensor isn't connected to the aftermarket ecu syvec, it is the analogue output from the AEM UEGO that is used.

Bosch sensor ---- AEM UEGO --- Analogue output

I see your point, I'll need to speak to a tuner again then, my mates supra had the AEM wired up to the sensor that came with it (assuming Bosch) through the syvecs and didn't work or was reading inaccurately I think, however he then changed the sensor for the NTK and kept the AEM gauge and it worked perfect.

[tiff_lee]

A couple of them are still running AEM gauge and I've spoke to a couple of syvecs tuners and they have said the same thing, that the sensor that comes with AEM doesn't work with syvecs, my mates supra had issues trying it.

Be that as it may the point I was making is the AEM (bosch) sensor isn't connected to the aftermarket ecu syvec, it is the analogue output from the AEM UEGO that is used.

Bosch sensor ---- AEM UEGO --- Analogue output

I see your point, I'll need to speak to a tuner again then, my mates supra had the AEM wired up to the sensor that came with it (assuming Bosch) through the syvecs and didn't work or was reading inaccurately I think, however he then changed the sensor for the NTK and kept the AEM gauge and it worked perfect.

Even that sounds a little odd, not second guessing what your mate is doing or anything but is the AEM even compatible with an alternate sensor? as the manual explicitly states Bosch LSU4.9 only.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/files/ins ... 0Gauge.pdf not sure if using this model but this is pretty much the one sold everywhere

[Gullzter]

Yeah that's the gauge he has.
It must be compatible as it was his tuner that hooked it up, also I'm pretty sure Craig Robinson on here uses an AEM gauge still with his syvecs ecu, and I know he uses an ntk sensor as I spoke to the company that done his mapping.
I'll double check

[SonicSW20]

Seems a bit odd, if the AEM unit wasn't compatible then they wouldn't state it works in their FAQ.

http://www.syvecs.co.uk/faq/

"Q) I have also an AEM 4 channel Wideband with turbo backpressure compensation of which I will be using and would like to have the output feed in the ECU so I have a reading on all cylinders and monitoring.

A) Not a problem you can assign an of the above items to any 0-5V input"

[Gullzter]

Seems a bit odd, if the AEM unit wasn't compatible then they wouldn't state it works in their FAQ.

http://www.syvecs.co.uk/faq/

"Q) I have also an AEM 4 channel Wideband with turbo backpressure compensation of which I will be using and would like to have the output feed in the ECU so I have a reading on all cylinders and monitoring.

A) Not a problem you can assign an of the above items to any 0-5V input"

Im going to assume that answer was either in regards to the gauge or they have encountered unforeseen problems with the sensor since answering that question however when I spoke to Evotune they recommended an NTK lambda sensor.
I'm going to question it again though and find out why a Bosch sensor wouldn't work properly as it would be easier for me to just get an AEM and Bosch package

Edit: Reading the FAQ back it looks like it may be down to the mappers but I can't understand why a different sensor would make a big enough difference...


Q) Do you support the Bosch LSU Sensors

A) Yes we can support them but as there are many variables we can only supply a base calibration curve. We recommend tweaking to suit a known lambda external source on the dyno

[tiff_lee]

Yeah something doesn't add up here as ultimately it's the AEM UEGO 0-5V analogue output which feeds into the ECU nothing directly from the sensor at all unless the issue is the AEM isn't accurate enough when using the bosch sensor but then as I said above the AEM manual states no compatibility with other sensors.

With that all said you would think the tuner know's what he is on about rather than some randoms on a forum or you would at least hope so.

[C35Rob]

I would be suspicious whether an NTK sensor would work with the AEM gauge, the gauge (controller) is calibrated to the sensor, which is why you don't have to do a free-air calibration with the AEM as you do with an innovate etc.

that said, I know Jamie @ evotune uses an NTK sensor on his dyno, and when I was there he said the AEM, innovate etc were "ok, but not the best" - he does lots of syvecs mapping (including craig's car)

but Lee is right in what he says that an 0-5v output is an 0-5v output, which is all the ecu sees, most ECU's will have a drop down menu of common wideband controllers, and a custom polynominal calc for oddball stuff.

although, if you plan on going Syvecs, and your tuner recommends a certain kit, then it's best to go with their advice

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NTK-AFRM-GEN2 ... 2376068311