Rev 4 caldina swap q?

[QUOC2008]

Im sure you can crack the block but its the strongest out of all the 3sgte engines and has the best head.
The question is what other choices do you have... thats cheap with all the advantages of the rev 4 engine...?

[sinjen]

Rev 3 stock will run more if you don't go forge.
Rods are stronger but only 350bhp is limit I believe

Gen2/3 rods have been proven to handle 700+whp. The only reason you replace them in a forged build is if you want something lighter that is just as strong.

You may be right on the Gen 3 rods, but that's not the weakest part. The Gen 3 has a limit stock and it's not the limit of the rods!!!

[sinjen]

I've been perfectly happy running mine, albeit with a ct15, for 2 years at up to 19.5 psi (fuel cut is at 22psi), my AFR's at WOT are 10:1 on the dot and never fluctuate.

In recent years, certainly since I became interested in the Gen 4, Prime have been happily building Gen 4's at ~330whp with the sweet 16 turbo with no issues at all. As said before, if you mess with any engine without making sure your AFR's are solid you're asking for trouble, as a few of the early swap people found out when they just wound up the boost to maximum.

Just to note, a stock Gen 3 would be pushing the limits at 330whp.

Justin over at prime has all the figures of what they've done (and I know he has a vested interest) and he's an approachable chap so just send him an email.

Personally, I can't wait to forge the innards and then really take advantage of the Head, ignition, block etc. But as a stock 300-350bhp mr2, the Gen 4 is an absolute peach.

I put that in there to show you can crack a st215 block. All down to tuning once you go past oem.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more dude.

[C35Rob]

that'll be 330 USAWHP then..

Prime made 327 wheel horsepower and 267 lb ft of torque at 17psi on an unopened Prime GEN4 swap with Prime 3" intake, Prime 3" downpipe, Berk 3" exhaust, and Prime 2.5" intercooler kit. This was on 93 octane pump gas and stock ECU. No piggybacks or funny business on the Dynojet.

I simply do not believe they are getting A) 330WHP (that's ~ 380bhp at the fly) out of a 3071 compressor wheel at 17psi B) pushing that much power through the TINY stock exhaust housing C) enough fuel out of a set of 540cc injectors to fuel it.. D) that the stock ECU magically has the resolution/capacity to handle that much power increase

absolutely impossible, standard yank dynojet power figure bloating

[QUOC2008]

My rev 4 engine is running a very modest 1.39 bars of boost and I'm getting 400whp or at fly 445.3 bhp 399lb... been on track and road for over 4 years now...so far I have been happy with it apart from throwing lots of gold brick at it you got to have pocket full of gold. If you are a power junkie.. then realise the other bits need doing to keep away from hospitals.

[sinjen]

that'll be 330 USAWHP then..

Prime made 327 wheel horsepower and 267 lb ft of torque at 17psi on an unopened Prime GEN4 swap with Prime 3" intake, Prime 3" downpipe, Berk 3" exhaust, and Prime 2.5" intercooler kit. This was on 93 octane pump gas and stock ECU. No piggybacks or funny business on the Dynojet.

I simply do not believe they are getting A) 330WHP (that's ~ 380bhp at the fly) out of a 3071 compressor wheel at 17psi B) pushing that much power through the TINY stock exhaust housing C) enough fuel out of a set of 540cc injectors to fuel it.. D) that the stock ECU magically has the resolution/capacity to handle that much power increase

absolutely impossible, standard yank dynojet power figure bloating

The standard gen 4 ecu does have a higher fuel map than the Gen 3 ecu, pushing 22psi versus, I think, the Gen 3's 19? At WOT Gen 3's, as far as I'm aware, run at roughly 10.7:1 AFR whereas mine is solid at 10:1.

As for the dynojet, yeah I agree but would be interesting to see an equivalent result for a Gen 3 on a dynojet for comparison, the actual figures would be irrelevant but if people over there are saying a Gen 3 is safe at 330whp dynojet as is the Gen 4, then the rod issue on the Gen 4 is a moot point, you'd have to change more on the Gen 3 to go further than you would the Gen 4.

[sinjen]

My rev 4 engine is running a very modest 1.39 bars of boost and I'm getting 400whp or at fly 445.3 bhp 399lb... been on track and road for over 4 years now...so far I have been happy with it apart from throwing lots of gold brick at it you got to have pocket full of gold. If you are a power junkie.. then realise the other bits need doing to keep away from hospitals.

What's your limitation for going further, is it mapped to run more boost?

Your 2 looks awesome btw

[C35Rob]

that'll be 330 USAWHP then..

Prime made 327 wheel horsepower and 267 lb ft of torque at 17psi on an unopened Prime GEN4 swap with Prime 3" intake, Prime 3" downpipe, Berk 3" exhaust, and Prime 2.5" intercooler kit. This was on 93 octane pump gas and stock ECU. No piggybacks or funny business on the Dynojet.

I simply do not believe they are getting A) 330WHP (that's ~ 380bhp at the fly) out of a 3071 compressor wheel at 17psi B) pushing that much power through the TINY stock exhaust housing C) enough fuel out of a set of 540cc injectors to fuel it.. D) that the stock ECU magically has the resolution/capacity to handle that much power increase

absolutely impossible, standard yank dynojet power figure bloating

The standard gen 4 ecu does have a higher fuel map than the Gen 3 ecu, pushing 22psi versus, I think, the Gen 3's 19? At WOT Gen 3's, as far as I'm aware, run at roughly 10.7:1 AFR whereas mine is solid at 10:1.

As for the dynojet, yeah I agree but would be interesting to see an equivalent result for a Gen 3 on a dynojet for comparison, the actual figures would be irrelevant but if people over there are saying a Gen 3 is safe at 330whp dynojet as is the Gen 4, then the rod issue on the Gen 4 is a moot point, you'd have to change more on the Gen 3 to go further than you would the Gen 4.

I don't think anyone would argue that in stock trim the gen 4 is slightly better and slightly more modern than a gen 3 . however it's just a evolution, rather than an amazing revolution.

Has anyone cracked the Gen 4 ECU? (genuine question, I don't know..) 10:1 AFR's on boost are far too rich - a proper tune would be somewhere around 11.5:1-12:1 (between best rich torque and safe best power), AFR's around 10:1 suggests the ECU is sensing greater than factory boost pressure and has been forced into a "rich and retard" algorithm to stop it detting it's self to bits. [/i]

[pbmr2]

10:1 does seem rich?

[sinjen]

10:1 is normal from what I've been told, not ideal for power but keeps combustion temps down. I guess for a broad map. Incidentally, it's 10:1 at Spring pressure and 1 bar also. That said I might chuck Justin an email just to make sure that's what they're seeing too.

I'll ask the same question as far as the ecu is concerned.

[pbmr2]

Don't know too much about the mapping side of them yet, just most A/F graphs I've seen stop around 10:1 at that end of the scale.
Maybe it just opens the taps higher up the revs?

[sinjen]

Don't know too much about the mapping side of them yet, just most A/F graphs I've seen stop around 10:1 at that end of the scale.
Maybe it just opens the taps higher up the revs?

Pretty sure I get 10:1 at WOT and full boost (whatever that is set to) which could be as low as 3500rpm from memory, maybe earlier.

[pbmr2]

you still on the stock ECU?

[QUOC2008]

My rev 4 engine is running a very modest 1.39 bars of boost and I'm getting 400whp or at fly 445.3 bhp 399lb... been on track and road for over 4 years now...so far I have been happy with it apart from throwing lots of gold brick at it you got to have pocket full of gold. If you are a power junkie.. then realise the other bits need doing to keep away from hospitals.

What's your limitation for going further, is it mapped to run more boost?

Your 2 looks awesome btw

Theres no limitation I just felt 450BHP was more then enough power at the moment for me... when I get use to this I might up the power.

The other reason was if I wanted more power I would have to retard advance the timing equal rough idle and there will be more turbo lag and i mainly use it for street use. How the car is now power comes in nice n smooth spooling from 2700rev where full boost is at 4000 hold till 6500rev and idles and drives like a oem car. It as track car for the streets

Thank for the compliment...

[Odin_S]

Very hard to believe a turbo that spools at 2700rpm and goes all the way to 6500rpm. Not saying your lying, just seems to me like a fat ballerina Having your cake and eating it.

I thought the whole point of a big power turbo was that it spooled later. Yours some could argue spools better than Rev 3 OEM. Or is this just a ST215 thing. Or have Garrett been doing it wrong?

[QUOC2008]

Very hard to believe a turbo that spools at 2700rpm and goes all the way to 6500rpm. Not saying your lying, just seems to me like a fat ballerina Having your cake and eating it.

I thought the whole point of a big power turbo was that it spooled later. Yours some could argue spools better than Rev 3 OEM. Or is this just a ST215 thing. Or have Garrett been doing it wrong?

I think u are misunderstanding what I mean full boost is around 4200rpm to 6500rpm but the turbo start building up or spooling up around 2700rpm that's what the dyno chart shows... I know its impossible for a big turbo to run full boost from 2700 to 6500rpm.

[Odin_S]

Very hard to believe a turbo that spools at 2700rpm and goes all the way to 6500rpm. Not saying your lying, just seems to me like a fat ballerina Having your cake and eating it.

I thought the whole point of a big power turbo was that it spooled later. Yours some could argue spools better than Rev 3 OEM. Or is this just a ST215 thing. Or have Garrett been doing it wrong?

I think u are misunderstanding what I mean full boost is around 4200rpm to 6500rpm but the turbo start building up or spooling up around 2700rpm that's what the dyno chart shows... I know its impossible for a big turbo to run full boost from 2700 to 6500rpm.

Ah i see, mine is building from say 3500rpm. But wants to go on passed the 7200rpm limit

[QUOC2008]

Very hard to believe a turbo that spools at 2700rpm and goes all the way to 6500rpm. Not saying your lying, just seems to me like a fat ballerina Having your cake and eating it.

I thought the whole point of a big power turbo was that it spooled later. Yours some could argue spools better than Rev 3 OEM. Or is this just a ST215 thing. Or have Garrett been doing it wrong?

I think u are misunderstanding what I mean full boost is around 4200rpm to 6500rpm but the turbo start building up or spooling up around 2700rpm that's what the dyno chart shows... I know its impossible for a big turbo to run full boost from 2700 to 6500rpm.

Ah i see, mine is building from say 3500rpm. But wants to go on passed the 7200rpm limit

7200rpm it must be a beast... mid to top end power 500bhp? Hehe.

Hows your idle rough

It's always hard to get a good balance for a street car but good on track.

[sinjen]

Just heard back, 10:1 afr on a gen 4 is perfect

[C35Rob]

What's the reasoning behind that then? As 10:1 is considered too rich on every other petrol powered forced induction internal combustion engine where around 11.5:1 is the sweet spot for best power but still a touch rich to aid cyl cooling and suppress knock, and 12:1 would gain a bit more power but run a little hotter.