Good news & Bad News ??

[elbon50]

I don't see how it is avoidable Peter, unless you remove the head, block internals and have it decked

Well, I'd like to avoid the catastrophic blowup by taking action before it happens Alex

That is the whole point behind starting this thread

I've been expecting top of cylinder problems sooner or later

What were the symptoms when the race engine blew

You were driving along briskly & then what ?

[SuperRedMR2]

I was doing over a tonne twenty on a private road, slowed to 40 and then it happened

Temperature went off the scale and I had to pull over.

Opened bonnet to hear a hissing/water escaping noise. At first we thought a coolant hose had fallen off but then realised the head had gone and this coolant was escaping through the head/block connection.

Mine was a mixture of a pitted block face and the radiator being very old.

Barrel no.4 had a uneven face right next to the piston bore.

[elbon50]

I was doing over a tonne twenty on a private road, slowed to 40 and then it happened

Temperature went off the scale and I had to pull over.

Opened bonnet to hear a hissing/water escaping noise. At first we thought a coolant hose had fallen off but then realised the head had gone and this coolant was escaping through the head/block connection.

Mine was a mixture of a pitted block face and the radiator being very old.

Barrel no.4 had a uneven face right next to the piston bore.

Thanks for that Alex

Very helpful

Must have been one heck of a shock to your system when that occurred

Did the engine cut out at operating temperature with foot off throttle ?

Mine started to do that yesterday half way through a 10 mile run

[SuperRedMR2]

Peter,

It was cutting out randomly, I just assumed it was my idle speed at the hot weather at the time.

It was a bit of a shock yeah and as it had no issues and then when I was driving at a slow rate, it went.

[elbon50]

477 views

Does no one else other than Alex have any suggestions /experiences that are relevant

1. Coolant loss

2. Engine at normal running temp cuts out at idle

[SuperRedMR2]

You notice that Lauren hadn't offered any more Peter as you ignored her advice and anyone else reading this will see that as well.

Hence loads of views but people may feel you won't listen anyway.

Take this into consideration- you made a big thing about the torque setting for the dizzy bolts that Toyota recommend- do Toyota recommend 5-30 oil in the 4age?

So it's okay to adhere to that but completely ignore other things

[elbon50]

You notice that Lauren hadn't offered any more Peter as you ignored her advice and anyone else reading this will see that as well

I didn't ignore Lauren's advice Alex

I explained that I have no plans to change my lubrication choices at the mo

In any case lubrication issues are totally irrelevant to the thread

You know what the thread is concerned with

Why folk pick up on some irrelevant side issue and rant on & on about that instead of the crux of the matter I really do not know

All this makes me look like a member of the awkward squad, which I really really am not

[Lauren]

In any case lubrication issues are totally irrelevant to the thread

It might do. I may well be wrong but it is my understanding that a thinner oil may well lose more pressure than a thicker one at higher temps. This comprimises the lubrication system and may lead to problems.

The symptoms you suggest could be related. As you say you use the car in competition you may well have experienced high oil temps and possibly lower oil pressure. It's a well known 4AGE killer.

A 15/50W such as Fuchs Titan Racing oil would be much better in this respect than a 0-30W Mobil 1 which is too thin and out of spec for the engine.

[elbon50]

In any case lubrication issues are totally irrelevant to the thread

It might do. I may well be wrong but it is my understanding that a thinner oil may well lose more pressure than a thicker one at higher temps. This comprimises the lubrication system and may lead to problems.

The symptoms you suggest could be related. As you say you use the car in competition you may well have experienced high oil temps and possibly lower oil pressure. It's a well known 4AGE killer.

A 15/50W such as Fuchs Titan Racing oil would be much better in this respect than a 0-30W Mobil 1 which is too thin and out of spec for the engine.

Many thanks for that Lauren

Will investigate Fuchs Titan (which I must admit not having come across before)

My rebuilt or replacement engine will need a good lubricant

What do you think about using a silvertop or blacktop 20V from a Levin or Trueno ?

[oukie]

Blacktop FTW

Edit, Peter did you ever use those cams and verniers I sold you.

If not you wanna sell them back maybe

[SuperRedMR2]

In any case lubrication issues are totally irrelevant to the thread

It might do. I may well be wrong but it is my understanding that a thinner oil may well lose more pressure than a thicker one at higher temps. This comprimises the lubrication system and may lead to problems.

The symptoms you suggest could be related. As you say you use the car in competition you may well have experienced high oil temps and possibly lower oil pressure. It's a well known 4AGE killer.

A 15/50W such as Fuchs Titan Racing oil would be much better in this respect than a 0-30W Mobil 1 which is too thin and out of spec for the engine.

Many thanks for that Lauren

Will investigate Fuchs Titan (which I must admit not having come across before)

My rebuilt or replacement engine will need a good lubricant

What do you think about using a silvertop or blacktop 20V from a Levin or Trueno ?

It's just a pity that your engine may not have lasted very long. My original engine had a slight big end knock at 135k - almost seems like yours has been mistreated

[elbon50]

Blacktop FTW

Edit, Peter did you ever use those cams and verniers I sold you.

If not you wanna sell them back maybe

Depending how it goes Chris, if I don't need the cams & verniers you'll get first chance to have them

Tested compressions today

Pots 3&4 are about 30% down on pressure so does look even more like top of block failure

I may decide to replace the engine rather than rebuild it

Too early to be sure yet

[SuperRedMR2]

What were the actual results Peter?

[elbon50]

It's just a pity that your engine may not have lasted very long. My original engine had a slight big end knock at 135k - almost seems like yours has been mistreated

Yes, my engine has done less than half the miles yours did Alex

It's had some hard work to do on track in the last 3 or 4 years

I suppose you could call that mistreatment

Car has been on SORN most of Winter & early Spring

Problems became apparent almost immediately I started to use it

[SuperRedMR2]

What were the actual results Peter?

Are you ignoring my question?

[elbon50]

What were the actual results Peter?

Are you ignoring my question?

No I'm not ignoring your question Alex

It may be a little while before I can give an accurate answer though

Patience is a virtue

[jimzzr]

Blacktop FTW

Edit, Peter did you ever use those cams and verniers I sold you.

If not you wanna sell them back maybe

Depending how it goes Chris, if I don't need the cams & verniers you'll get first chance to have them

Tested compressions today

Pots 3&4 are about 30% down on pressure so does look even more like top of block failure

I may decide to replace the engine rather than rebuild it

Too early to be sure yet

Without wishing to hi jack elbons thread, does anyone know why this failure of the water jacket - no 4 cylinder happens. Is it lack of inhibitors/depletion. Some sort of cavitation/erosion?

What can be done to prevent it. Type of head headgasket? sealant or not? It would be good to know.

Cheers

Jim

[Picaro]

On the subject of auto fluid in a manual tranny, which has been somewhat passed over, since it is the minor issue right now, Toyota actually sent out the early MKI's with auto fluid in them. You won't find much info on this, but there are Toyota reference bulletins regarding it. I first found out about it after the first tranny oil change on an '85 MKIa I bought new. The oil was red in color and didn't smell like normal tranny fluid. I had it done at a dealer and they also noted the difference, with one of them suspecting it was auto fluid. I did some checking with a parts counter person afterwards, and sure enough they found one or two reference bulletins about it. Honestly, the car never shifted quite as smoothly again after I started using standard tranny fluid, but I never found an auto fluid that worked all that well either, so I gave up on it, as the BGB references standard oil.

[elbon50]

Without wishing to hi jack elbons thread, does anyone know why this failure of the water jacket - no 4 cylinder happens. Is it lack of inhibitors/depletion. Some sort of cavitation/erosion?

What can be done to prevent it. Type of head headgasket? sealant or not? It would be good to know. Jim

No problem re hijacking so far as I'm concerned Jim

It's a good question, to which I would like a definitive answer

IIRC Paul Woods' theory is poor cooling at the gearbox end of the block

He may or may not explain further (as he's not talking to me at the mo)

[PW@Woodsport]

Not at all Peter, i just find the things you do to your car are not what anyone else would do or advise, then you start a thread asking for help when it goes wrong, then totally disregard the advice and do your own thing anyway.... anyone that says anything you disagree with gets tarnished with the "stop picking on me" brush.

That becomes increasingly tiresome and exhausting, so it's easier to not bother, after all what do i know, only made a career out of specializing in the repair and modification of Mr2s.

Best to leave you to it