Need Advice, experience & recommendations on Big Brake Kit

[slipping clutch]

A little something to tempt you with http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... iment=true

[GeorgeL]

Your welcome, when I did the conversion a few years back now I made a post on one of cantfindausername's thread but I cannot find it now - the comparison I made was with a stock rev 3 car set up with stock brakes and new pads - annoyingly I came to the conclusion having spent loads of money and time sorting out my brake set up that it was no better than the stock rev 3 set up. However on a track day the tables are reversed a little bit as I can adjust the brakes accordingly.
Strangely enough I only started the project because I also thought about gt4 brakes on the front and contacted a guy who had actually done it - he warned me off of doing it as he had been having problems setting up the brakes - it was far too front endy but he hadn't the time to go any further with it.
I also downgraded my pads from redstuff to greenstuff - the reds made the pedal feel far too 'wooden' under heavy braking - your foot really felt remote from the braking system and although you were slowing and stopping it just didn't inspire confidence. The softer greens, which most people seem to hate, suited my set up and my braking much more - I got the pedal feel back that I wanted and to be honest I am much more of a progressive braker than a slam then on at the last moment type - the trade off being loads more black muck all over my wheels compared to the redstuff.
Initially I kept the stock rev 1 master cylinder and bias valve but had way to much pedal travel to feel confidant in the car - it literally went halfway down before it did anything to three quarters down before it really made the brakes bite. I swapped out to a rev 3 master cylinder and bias valve and got a massive improvement but it still wasn't right - hard braking still saw the nose diving down and the steering getting a bit squirrely so I added the manual bias valve in the cabin which was a big help apart from the set up period when I seemed to go from one extreme to the other and on one memorable occasion testing in the car park at work after hours I left a big fat number 11 across the directors parking space with my locked up rears.
If you go down the route of fitting a manual valve in the cabin make sure you get one that you can lock into place - I didn't and it seemed when ever I took the car somewhere who ever got in it just had to dial the valve in or out which is massively annoying. ( to me any way as I am not the most tolerant person you will ever come across)
Annoyingly a few companies make up front brake kits for the mr2 but I never found one that made a matching set for the rear although I think it was Wilwood who made a disc caliper with integrated handbrake that I looked at for the rears , I just couldn't find some one who would be able to make the mounting brackets for me at a sensible price and was of course willing to take the risk of manufacturing something that could fail when the car was braked from speed - the claim and blame scenario was the biggest hurdle I came across with that one.
I should also mention that the first modification I did to my brakes was the most basic but overlooked - I changed the brake lines to stainless steel braided items which were a huge improvement on the ( at the time ) 15 year old rubber items that were on the car. I then had to change the front lines again to suit the new four pot calipers when I swapped over to them.
Hope all this is of some help to you - having read it back it seems a bit negative to what you are thinking of doing - its not meant to be its just you do need to think about maybe having your stock brakes refurbished by a reputable company, some decent discs and of course some decent pads to achieve the same results as I have with my brake set up.

That's quite a write up there on your experience mate.. Bloody hell haha!

Thanks a lot for it though.. Definitely a great insight to your experience with what you have done.

You are right though.. Not many make a full front and rear. Willwood do as it said.. I know of an MR2 that has the kit but I've only seen it once and didn't pay much attention at the time. Which I wish I had done now! Doh!

I must admit the guy I know who runs GT4 fronts says they are amazing... And actually put me onto a set on eBay and I just wasn't sure. They went for £440 in the end. Which I thought was great money for the seller!

Those AP's are more like it though.. Good find!

I have a friend who runs a Honda tuning garage up here and he deals with stop-tech.. I haven't actually seen what he can do for me so that's a thought but really wanted to hear about what others have done. Which again thank you for sharing with me

I'd like to find a write up on those D2 brakes some guys I've seen use aswell... Or even the Hi-Spec ones too. Just to see what people are saying now that I have a good comparable opinion/experience.

I just know that I need to sort something before the car is ready for the summer. Standard brakes regardless of what pads I don't think will be able to cope with what I'll be asking of them.

The last thing I want to do is buy something like the D2 kit or the supra/RX8 kit and it doesn't cope with what I'm needing/looking for.

[slipping clutch]

I will be interested to see what you come up with, its kindled my interest in those wilwood rears again as well.
Hope it all works out for you - there are some hi specs on piston heads as well as those AP calipers - in the motorsport categorie.

[Keri-WMS]

There is only one kit available for the sw20 that has been properly developed to be balanced and that's the tarrox kit.

*cough*!

We don't have a rear handbrake kit as yet (race only for the rear kit), but have worked it so that our front upgrades keep the front / rear balance spot on.....two versions to match the rear caliper you happen to run.

[GeorgeL]

Pm sent Keri 👍

[synXero]

Was just about to mention WMS! I believe brembo do a standalone handbrake caliper too.

[slipping clutch]

wolfkatz do a full rear kit as do wilwood and I have also been in touch with another company in the States about this - all in all your looking at a grand roughly for a rear brake set up from those three companies. To rich for me I am afraid.

[GeorgeL]

I'm waiting to hear back from Keri about their kit but on initial looking it's a bit on the small side compared to what I've been looking at. I know this doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't do the job to the standard I'm after though. So I'm looking forward to Hearing back


So far it's looking like stoptech or AP up front and then bracket out the rear for larger discs. (I'm waiting on a price for AP's through a friend)

Or

R34 brembos as I've got a set in the garage that came off my old mans R32 and the rear I'm still looking into something else for this.

What was the company in the states you mentioned bud?

[Magic Beans]

Stock calipers with braided lines and Carbotechs was enough on mine to separate the plasma from your blood! Worth considering, if you haven't already tried them, before upgrading the bigger bits.

[vinp182]

Check out Olly's new setup dude http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/125/104214.html?start=700

[Peter Gidden]

Stock calipers with braided lines and Carbotechs was enough on mine to separate the plasma from your blood! Worth considering, if you haven't already tried them, before upgrading the bigger bits.

I agree totally. For road use, nothing more is required. And you retained the original front/rear balance.

[Peter Gidden]

Check out Olly's new setup dude http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/125/104214.html?start=700

Link doesn't work unless you're a paid up member.

[GeorgeL]

Check out Olly's new setup dude http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/125/104214.html?start=700

Good shout Vinny.. Those look right up my street. I'll need to get in touch with Olly about those👍

[GeorgeL]

Stock calipers with braided lines and Carbotechs was enough on mine to separate the plasma from your blood! Worth considering, if you haven't already tried them, before upgrading the bigger bits.

I agree totally. For road use, nothing more is required. And you retained the original front/rear balance.

Phil I haven't tried it mate no... unfortunately.
It would save a lot of money going down that route that's for sure. I've really just been looking beyond those kind of options. Possibly down to ignorance.
I know what the end product I'm after is though... that may be my issue as I have been thinking I won't get it from standard callipers.

Last summer I was beyond pushing the brakes on the car to their limit and having to lift off much earlier than I would have liked to.
All be it they didn't have carbotechs in their though but I want to make sure that I more than cover it.

I agree the balance factor in it is important. It's Something id be gambling on with a lot of the options on the table. I could potentially end up spending a lot of time trying to amend should it be a nightmare.

The whole thing is giving me a headache when I start looking into it.

I appreciate the feedback I've had. Especially those who are sharing their personal experience of their set ups.

Phil did you run larger discs at all? (Bracket out the callipers?)

[Magic Beans]

I ran standard sized EBC drilled and grooved discs.

I did look at these various big brake kits, after being underwhelmed by the performance of the stock brakes. I've found that in many cases the stock brakes aren't weak they're just poorly maintained, so aren't working anywhere near their potential. After taking Rob B's (I believe you know him) old car out and him demoing his brakes (which later became mine) I was completely sold. I've yet to drive anything (bar an LP-670) which comes close to them, especially with good tyres.

These big brake kits do look good and surely offer more ultimate power, on the appropriate car. A MKII isn't a particularly big/heavy car though and I've never been convinced the sacrifice of all round performance (especially balance) is worth it, when good (albeit very dusty) pads to me offer the same results. Arguably better as they're just improving on an already properly balanced set-up.

Again, that's just my thoughts on it. I've never tried an MR2 with larger brakes on it, so can't give educated feedback on them. If I were to build another ultimate performance MR2 I'd go with the stock brakes and Carbotechs again in a heartbeat. I guess there is weight saving to be had to these other kits though, which is a factor to consider

[Race Idiot]

I went from crappy redstuffs all round, to carbotechs all round and I was laughing at how good they were when I first got them fitted.

Then I got the wms kit and was impressed moreso, with the pedal feedback. You can definitely threshold brake easier with the extra modulation that the wms kit provides. Also the reduction of unsprung mass by getting rid of the boatanchor front calipers is also noticeable.

I'm hoping to see how they perform on track also and the good thing is carbotech do make pads that fit the wms caliper, so i'll be switching to the xp8s

But none of that matters because im a chav in the mcdonalds carpark, innit

[GeorgeL]

I went from crappy redstuffs all round, to carbotechs all round and I was laughing at how good they were when I first got them fitted.

Then I got the wms kit and was impressed moreso, with the pedal feedback. You can definitely threshold brake easier with the extra modulation that the wms kit provides. Also the reduction of unsprung mass by getting rid of the boatanchor front calipers is also noticeable.

I'm hoping to see how they perform on track also and the good thing is carbotech do make pads that fit the wms caliper, so i'll be switching to the xp8s

But none of that matters because im a chav in the mcdonalds carpark, innit

Thanks for the review there mate much appreciated. I haven't had any reviews on the WMS kit yet. Waiting to hear back from Keri still on the WMS
Kit.

Do you use just WMS fronts?


So the general consensus is that carbotechs are boss 👌 perfect! It was going to be either them or pagid... Possibly ds2500/3000 pad wise of be after. But these carbotechs are being praised big time by everyone it seems.

That last bit there made me chuckle.. Haha!

[Race Idiot]

Thanks for the review there mate much appreciated. I haven't had any reviews on the WMS kit yet. Waiting to hear back from Keri still on the WMS
Kit.

Do you use just WMS fronts?


So the general consensus is that carbotechs are boss 👌 perfect! It was going to be either them or pagid... Possibly ds2500/3000 pad wise of be after. But these carbotechs are being praised big time by everyone it seems.

That last bit there made me chuckle.. Haha!

Yeah i'm just using the front kit with the thicker of the two size discs, my main criteria was to be able to still use nice lightweight 16" wheels. At the time I dont think the rear kit was available and the minimum size for the rears would be 17s.

Also iirc you cant get DS2500/3000s to fit mk2s? Or maybe i'm looking in the wrong places.

[juliankv73]

So the general consensus is that carbotechs are boss 👌 perfect! It was going to be either them or pagid... Possibly ds2500/3000 pad wise of be after. But these carbotechs are being praised big time by everyone it seems.

Hey George,

I had carbotechs on my previous, now present Tbar mr2 and the stopping on those are great.

The only thing is youd need to be prepared to wash your wheels regularly and probably invest in some type of wax wheel sealant to help repel the dust from the carbo's.

Man they are dusty! But that's a little compromise for great stopping power especially when running these front and back.

P.s I have your Desmond Wise wheels on now, haven't cleaned or waxed them yet, so they'll be coming back off as soon as I get the wax sealer to protect from the carbo dust as that stuff is corrosive especially for your Regamasters

The other factor is the cost. If you run grooved discs your basically eating/wearing up expensive pads. Maybe worth trying a set of carbotecs, see how long they last with your driving , then if its good, happy days, but if your eating them up on standard discs (not grooved etc), then maybe your driving style needs uprated braking components

HTH

[slipping clutch]

There is only one kit available for the sw20 that has been properly developed to be balanced and that's the tarrox kit.

*cough*!

We don't have a rear handbrake kit as yet (race only for the rear kit), but have worked it so that our front upgrades keep the front / rear balance spot on.....two versions to match the rear caliper you happen to run.

I have to say I think Keri makes a good point here - my set up was mismatched from the start - obviously a company selling brake kits will have done all the research first and then developed the product - that's why the wolfkatz rear kits I posted about are so expensive I expect.
I would respectfully suggest that if any one is thinking of doing there own brake set up please ask the experts first - they may have a solution to your problems without, as I experienced, creating more problems.