3S-GE BEAMS swap

[Red Wedge]

Saw the BEAMS engine mentioned by a mk1.5 owner on Reddit and got curious so did some research. Turns out they're quite good.

Has anyone ever put one in a mk1? I imagine it's not very straight forward but can it be done?

[Charged]

Yes it can be done, can't see it being more difficult that a 1.5 swap, same mounts. Wiring may be slightly trickier. I'm sure Paul Woods will be along to explain more shortly.

[Red Wedge]

Cool. I imagine that they could be mated to a mk2 gearbox as they are usually in front engined cars.

[gavinda]

its standard in late mr2 mk2's also, so yes it mates to its own box

[gavinda]

or a 3sgte turbo box

[Red Wedge]

The 5th gen 3S-GE units had titanium valves. Toyota are mad bastards really, I can't imagine how expensive a new valve set is.

They also came with dual VVT-i and made 207 hp, bet that's a laugh in a mk1.

[pistol pete]

but surely for the cost of it would be cheaper with a more powerfull 3sgte or v6 in there..

woudl still be good though, just be sure to weigh up the costs and outcome..
207 isnt far from a 4age with a big pulley and few tuning bits (187hpish?) for a lot less hassle too

[PW@Woodsport]

This ^

If the 3s-gte had never been invented then the Beams into Mk1 would have made a great swap, however it takes roughly the same amount of work and fabrication to do either swap, so i guess the question you have to ask is why would you install a less powerful engine for the same amount of work/money?

The 3s-gte kicks its ass in all departments so it kind of becomes a poor second choice, although it would be stonking it will never be as good as the Gte or V6 options.

[PW@Woodsport]

It's also important to remember torque instead of BHP, the 4a is gutless in the torque dept. The 3s-ge engines share the same behaviour, nothing low down until 4k rpm, just like the 4a you need to rev the nuts off it to get anything back.... the 3s-gte and and V6 options are the complete opposite.

So even a well tuned 200bhp 4a-ge is not going to have anywhere near the torque or widespread delivery of the better engine options.

I have yet to experience full throttle on my 2gr Mk1, it propels my Mk1 at scary speeds from very early in the rev range with zero effort, a real torque monster.

Having said that i'd like to do a Beams Mk1 just for the crack.

[Charged]

Having said that i'd like to do a Beams Mk1 just for the crack.

Didn't Lodgeman start one Paul? Going waaaay back though..

[Red Wedge]

Thanks Paul, helpful as always!

Did they do a turbo variant of the 5th gen 3S-GE with the titanium valves?

I like the idea of a high revving NA engine in the mk1 but you're right about it being gutless.

[pistol pete]

If ya want a high revin mk1
Bung In a black top 20v 4age engine
The rev Hugh and run good power

By from experience in bens tureno they are pretty gutless

[pistol pete]

Ps I really want to build a 2 gr when I can afford it

[Tedtiler]

The 5th gen 3S-GE units had titanium valves. Toyota are mad bastards really, I can't imagine how expensive a new valve set is.

They also came with dual VVT-i and made 207 hp, bet that's a laugh in a mk1.

207 hp one is for an altezza so is facing the wrong way and is practically useless for an mr2.

Red top is 190 usually on a dyno from what I've seen so a standard rev3 3sge with cams would go as well up top. Apparently the beams is a torquey unit tho.

I had a red top beams sitting in my garage with loom/ecu ready for transplant into a mk2 track car but the loom was huge compared to a 3sge or 3sgte engine. So really not much point. Nice looking thing tho.

[PW@Woodsport]

Yes Ollie i think Lodge had looked into it at one point, i actually get a few emails per year from people wanting to do it, but when they realise a 3s-gte is the same outright cost but far exceeds the performance levels and tunability they don't bother with the 3s-ge route, it's just not worth it even in Beams form.

For those that love the high revvy nature of the 4a the 2zz-ge makes a fantastic upgrade, 6 speed too, and keeps within the cars original design spec, but still ultimately gutless compared to the bigger swaps which are just another league.

[pistol pete]

How easy is the 2zz swap
Kels wants an upgrade to hers...
And how costly if I do it?

[IanClements]

Have to say that Ian Parkhouse's 2zz is pretty well matched to my v6 although admittedly a better exhaust would see a bit more power from mine.

Thought about the Beams but Rogue said there weren't many about. Wouldn't it be lighter than a v6 and turbo?

[PW@Woodsport]

The 2zz swap is lots of little things, the biggest one is the drivers side engine mount, the other 3 mounts all work, but the drivers one needs a new chassis hanger bracket welding in, but after that all other mounts just work.

It needs an exhaust manifold making, the 2zz one does not fit, the gear cables need a holding bracket making, the gearbox needs to be swapped for a Celica 6 speed or the linkage comes out the wrong side, either that or serious casing mods (much simpler to get a Celica box, they're cheap now) , even then the Celica box needs its selector assembly flipping 180*.

Then it's just the usual plumbing/wiring... but the wiring needs a few tricks to get it 100% right.

I've built four 2zz Mk1s to date and the first one was a huge learning curve, not a simple engine to install without knowledge.

[PW@Woodsport]

Have to say that Ian Parkhouse's 2zz is pretty well matched to my v6 although admittedly a better exhaust would see a bit more power from mine.

Thought about the Beams but Rogue said there weren't many about. Wouldn't it be lighter than a v6 and turbo?

Ian your V6 is being strangled by that exhaust, i said this before it was even dyno'd, a VVti 1mz should be spanking a 2zz.

The 1mz is around the same weight as the 3s-ge, there isn't much in it.

[jon_st205]

The biggie for me is has anyone yet fitted a rev4 3SGTE? Higher comp ratio and generally a much nicer engine - especially for a midship install.

I like the 2ZZ and the 3SGE beams but I'd agree with the basic premise that neither has the outright power to propel the relatively lardy mk1 to the 'decent' bhp/tonne ratio.