[Mk2] [Turbo] Max power from hybrid turbos - who has made what bhp???

[Treacle]

Hi everyone, I'm an ST205 owner and a regular over on GT4OC, but thought I'd come over here to see what info and results you lot have had on hybrid turbos.

I am intrigued to see what the capabilities are and who has pushed the boundaries with CT26 based hybrids. Yes I know much more is achievable with Garrett's etc but thats not what I'm asking.

I run a Turbo Technics S148 hybrid at 1.5bar on a forged engine with lots of mods, and on the dyno it made 411bhp and 375lb/ft, there is also another guys on GT4OC with the same turbo on a similarly modified ST185 making around 400bhp.

Now the S148 seems to be a cracking turbo but there are bigger hybrids out there, like its bigger brother the S175 for example (although debatable if this still counts as a hybrid as it has custom cast housings), and various other offering from other turbo suppliers. However I don't know anyone that has made better power with these larger turbos on a GT4, but maybe some of you MR2 boys know of some examples? In fact most of the people I've heard of that have larger hybrids don't seem to have the engine to back it up and test them to their capabilities.

What sort of results have you guys had? Do you know of anyone making good power on hybrid turbos?

[RyanRs]

Think I poss made the record @418bhp @ 1.55 bar on a blitz k1-380 ct29b hybrid. The thing went like a rocket with that on it! The engine was stock rev3 up top and 2.1L forged bottom. Would have seen a good 30hp more with some 264 cams and WI + 0. 5 bar more boost. It boosted all way to 8, 200rpm also.

[mrdb]

Seen a turbo technics s148 make 377bhp @ 1.4bar did make 400hp @ 1.6 with good mapping and 264 cams.

[msherry21]

I have a CT20b that's going to Turbo Technics today to get rebuilt. I'm waiting to find out what options they have for me with this turbo as I have a fully forged engine and would love to see what they can do with it.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Cheers, Michael.

[jimGTS]

what you making at the wheels and what dyno??

gt4 numbers are going to differ from mr2 results given different transmission losses

[gazrev1tubby]

I have a CT20b that's going to Turbo Technics today to get rebuilt. I'm waiting to find out what options they have for me with this turbo as I have a fully forged engine and would love to see what they can do with it.

I'll keep you guys posted.

Cheers, Michael.

I'll be interested to know the outcome too, as I was told that the reason most companies use the ct26 to hybridise (if thats even a word), is because someone went to the trouble of creating custom bearings a few years ago, and they're easy to obtain - whereas, replacement bearings for the ct20b can't be bought, and the cost to machine some is too high.

I had my ct20b rebuilt a few months ago, with new everything - except for the bearings. They found mine were fine and were happy to reuse them.

I had a tt s148 a few years ago, and made 323 bhp at 1.3 bar on a stock rev1 engine, with rev3 injectors and a greddy emanage blue. That turbo went on to live in Dave's (oddshoes) white rev3, that he recently sold

[msherry21]

Hi Gaz, who did you use for the rebuild? Did you change to a steel shaft? How does the turbo feel now?

I only want to go with a larger compressor etc if its reliable and efficient to do so.

Cheers, Michael.

[gazrev1tubby]

I used a company called 'turbo rebuild' in Birmingham iirc. They were really friendly, and helpful over the phone.

With mine, I only sent the core, as I removed both housings myself.

They stripped it, cleaned it, checked the tolerances and inspected the bearings, fitted new seals, a steel shaft/exhaust wheel, new compressor wheel, rebalanced and tested, and sent it back with 12 months warranty

[msherry21]

That sounds awesome! I've given mine to Turbo Technics so hopefully they do a great job!!

[gnzyza]

For those with ct20B I was told by TT that the shaft or ceramic wheel often breakes when removing? so they will probably replace, I only wanted seals and bearing replaced if necessary. is that the case with the ceramic wheel shaft?

[Al-sw20]

I'm confused as to why people would spend moonbeams on an engine rebuild only to bottleneck it with a CT series turbo that has to run 1.5 bar + to get any decent power.

[gazrev1tubby]

I'm confused as to why people would spend moonbeams on an engine rebuild only to bottleneck it with a CT series turbo that has to run 1.5 bar + to get any decent power.

Because it's a direct fit, so the oil/water lines can be reused, the downpipe fits, heat shield fits.

Plus, if there's ever a problem, a 'stock' turbo can be refitted, without needing to buy any extra parts.

Also, a hybrid typically costs around £6-800 brand new, whereas a garrett or precision setup, would cost far more when you factor in the custom parts you need to make/buy.

[mrdb]

For those with ct20B I was told by TT that the shaft or ceramic wheel often breakes when removing? so they will probably replace, I only wanted seals and bearing replaced if necessary. is that the case with the ceramic wheel shaft?

unfortunatly the shaft is brittle so quite possible

[bobhatton]

I'll be interested to know the outcome too, as I was told that the reason most companies use the ct26 to hybridise (if thats even a word), is because someone went to the trouble of creating custom bearings a few years ago, and they're easy to obtain - whereas, replacement bearings for the ct20b can't be bought, and the cost to machine some is too high.

That is not right, I have all the parts to rebuild a CT20B including the bearings.

The CT26 has a thicker and stronger shaft and bigger turbine wheel so is the right turbo to fit a bigger comp wheel to

[Al-sw20]

I'm confused as to why people would spend moonbeams on an engine rebuild only to bottleneck it with a CT series turbo that has to run 1.5 bar + to get any decent power.

Because it's a direct fit, so the oil/water lines can be reused, the downpipe fits, heat shield fits.

Plus, if there's ever a problem, a 'stock' turbo can be refitted, without needing to buy any extra parts.

Also, a hybrid typically costs around £6-800 brand new, whereas a garrett or precision setup, would cost far more when you factor in the custom parts you need to make/buy.

You don't chase 400hp on a budget. Do it once, do it right.

[gazrev1tubby]

I'll be interested to know the outcome too, as I was told that the reason most companies use the ct26 to hybridise (if thats even a word), is because someone went to the trouble of creating custom bearings a few years ago, and they're easy to obtain - whereas, replacement bearings for the ct20b can't be bought, and the cost to machine some is too high.

That is not right, I have all the parts to rebuild a CT20B including the bearings.

The CT26 has a thicker and stronger shaft and bigger turbine wheel so is the right turbo to fit a bigger comp wheel to

Only repeating what a turbo rebuild company told me bob

[gazrev1tubby]

I'm confused as to why people would spend moonbeams on an engine rebuild only to bottleneck it with a CT series turbo that has to run 1.5 bar + to get any decent power.

Because it's a direct fit, so the oil/water lines can be reused, the downpipe fits, heat shield fits.

Plus, if there's ever a problem, a 'stock' turbo can be refitted, without needing to buy any extra parts.

Also, a hybrid typically costs around £6-800 brand new, whereas a garrett or precision setup, would cost far more when you factor in the custom parts you need to make/buy.

You don't chase 400hp on a budget. Do it once, do it right.

Great if you have the money too, but there's nothing wrong with hybrid turbos.

[Mike N]

The only issue with my stage 2 hybrid is the heavy weight of the steel turbine that TT use, obviously its strong but its also laggy!

I love the interchangeability of the 26, 20b, hybrid etc which suits me.

For a cheap hybrid I would (and nearly did) try the CT26 with a CT 20b compressor wheel and housing, the wheel needs boring & reaming to size and the core assembly would need a balance etc, the 26 exhaust housing would probably need machining out too.

Unfortunately before I had time to try the above, the CT26 I had was fitted on a BMW turbo conversion that I did, when the turbo was removed from the Beemer the ceramic turbine just broke off! Oh well!

[Al-sw20]

For all the money spent on these hybrids, just buy a few stock ct20bs if you want to save a buck and have ease of fitment.

£200 each, buy four of them. The record is 365 rwhp @ 1.5 bar.
Buddy of mine lays down 291rwhp @ 1 bar boost on his built gen3 running on 95 octane pump fuel.

http://youtu.be/6C_RhRZi6X4

[Mike N]

I ran a stock ct20b @1.5bar using a modified cosworth -31 actuator and the turbo shaft seized.

That was after two short hard bursts following a long gentle warm up! Maybe I was just unlucky.

My hybrid runs that sort of boost and more all day long and has lasted years