I could do with some advice on tuning a Rev 2 engine.
I have searched and cant find anything useful in the knowledge base other than the MRcontrols power primer, would like a second opinion
I am building this car to a tight budget, and aim to achieve 265hp at the Wheels.
As it will stand when back on the road the spec will be:
Rev 2 3S-GTE, Rebuilt 20,000 miles ago (Standard Internals)
Fuel cut defender
CT26 Turbo
3 Aussie Performance Decat/Downpipe
3 Twin Exhaust
Blitz Induction Kit,
4 Core Side Mount intercooler with shroud etc.
HKS EVC 3 Boost Controller
Current plan is to go to Tuning Developments and have an Emanage Blue fitted and mapped for around £550
Questions I have are:
Is an uprated fuel pump and/or bigger injectors required to achieve that power.
Is there any way I can check if a Rev 3 head gasket was fitted when the engine was rebuilt?
Has anyone else had a Rev ½ mapped with Tuning developments here?
Do you think my target is achievable/will be reliable with components fitted
Cheers
Dan
[Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
I've read this post
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0
But most of it seems to just be an argument lol, and I wasn't planning on swapping to Rev 3 sensors, I already have enough work to finish and the car has to be ready for beginning of May (I only have a couple of hours a week to work on it)
Cheers
Dan
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0
But most of it seems to just be an argument lol, and I wasn't planning on swapping to Rev 3 sensors, I already have enough work to finish and the car has to be ready for beginning of May (I only have a couple of hours a week to work on it)
Cheers
Dan
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
You do not need an ECU, that will not give you any more power.
Fit a CT20b turbo, run high octane fuel and 1.5 bar boost and you will have around 300/325 hp at the flywheel
Fit a CT20b turbo, run high octane fuel and 1.5 bar boost and you will have around 300/325 hp at the flywheel
Designer for turbo set ups on F1 cars, and Nitrous Oxide Systems of the USA in the 80s
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
You do not need an ECU, that will not give you any more power.
Fit a CT20b turbo, run high octane fuel and 1.5 bar boost and you will have around 300/325 hp at the flywheel
Thanks Bob, I dont think running higher than pump octane fuel is really an option for me though as the car will be used regularly on the road over the summer months as well as being tracked.
It seems the general consensus based on replies Ive had elsewhere that a CT20B is a necessity. Im not sure I have time now to finish the rest of the work and start taking off manifolds etc. on top of that but I could maybe consider it.
I havent fitted my decat pipe yet so I suppose I could change the turbo while working in that area. I was reluctant to change my turbo due to it being in such good condition (It was also claimed by the previous owner to be a stage 1 Turbo technics hybrid turbo, but I cannot confirm as the actuator bracket was missing when I got it and apparently that is where TT put there sticker)
How much can a good condition CT20B be picked up for? Is the CT20B still a twin scroll turbo? I like the current characteristics of the CT26, there is very little lag. Can the existing exhaust mani be retained?
Fit a CT20b turbo, run high octane fuel and 1.5 bar boost and you will have around 300/325 hp at the flywheel
Thanks Bob, I dont think running higher than pump octane fuel is really an option for me though as the car will be used regularly on the road over the summer months as well as being tracked.
It seems the general consensus based on replies Ive had elsewhere that a CT20B is a necessity. Im not sure I have time now to finish the rest of the work and start taking off manifolds etc. on top of that but I could maybe consider it.
I havent fitted my decat pipe yet so I suppose I could change the turbo while working in that area. I was reluctant to change my turbo due to it being in such good condition (It was also claimed by the previous owner to be a stage 1 Turbo technics hybrid turbo, but I cannot confirm as the actuator bracket was missing when I got it and apparently that is where TT put there sticker)
How much can a good condition CT20B be picked up for? Is the CT20B still a twin scroll turbo? I like the current characteristics of the CT26, there is very little lag. Can the existing exhaust mani be retained?
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
To put the question another way, if I go ahead and get the car mapped with CT26, 3 downpipe exhaust, intercooler etc. etc. at 16PSI, what power will the Rev 2 make? Surely mapping will have some benefit as the stock ecu will run richer than is optimum.
Thanks
Thanks
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Danbob wrote:To put the question another way, if I go ahead and get the car mapped with CT26, 3 downpipe exhaust, intercooler etc. etc. at 16PSI, what power will the Rev 2 make? Surely mapping will have some benefit as the stock ecu will run richer than is optimum.
Thanks
Toyota will have spent far more money then you and I will ever have to design their ECU and set it up for road use, so do you think £500 spent will do anything better?
The engine needs to run rich to cool the charge to stop knock.
If you fitted lower compression pistons then you could change things but with a stock engine and road fuel stick to the stock ECU
Designer for turbo set ups on F1 cars, and Nitrous Oxide Systems of the USA in the 80s
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Thanks for the response, not sure if I agree with it though. Toyota set up that ecu for a car running no more than 12PSI boost with stock exhaust and intercooler and which had to run richer than optimum to enable the catalytic converter to work efficiently. None of these criteria apply to my vehicle anymore. I appreciate knock needs to be avoided, but I think stock ECU sets injector duty to 100% over 12PSI, which is a bit overkill.
Has anybody actually done this with a CT26? And has the results to show?
Alternatively if CT20B is the way to go, does anyone have one for sale? And is anybody running a CT20B with Rev 2 injectors, MAF, ECU etc. successfully?
Thanks
Dan
Has anybody actually done this with a CT26? And has the results to show?
Alternatively if CT20B is the way to go, does anyone have one for sale? And is anybody running a CT20B with Rev 2 injectors, MAF, ECU etc. successfully?
Thanks
Dan
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Danbob wrote: And is anybody running a CT20B with Rev 2 injectors, MAF, ECU etc. successfully?
Dan
Yes on my sprint car with 1.5 bar boost and keeping up with 450hp 4 wheel drive cars.
I do not know where this " ECU sets injector duty to 100% over 12PSI," comes from, seen it a number of times but no prof its right.
The A/F ratio is around 10.5 when on 1.2 bar boost, just right for a turbo engine so not rich at all
Designer for turbo set ups on F1 cars, and Nitrous Oxide Systems of the USA in the 80s
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
OK so based on this info the most sensible and cost effective solution is to find a CT20B and keep everything else the same, maybe change the fuel pump for piece of mind, up the boost to 1.2 bar and get the fuelling checked?
That should cost maybe £300 all in and potentially yield better results than the remap.
Sound about right?
That should cost maybe £300 all in and potentially yield better results than the remap.
Sound about right?
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Bob are you running standard Rev 2 pistons, or lower compression ones?
Have you ever ran your car with that setup on 99 Ron running 1.2 bar?
Any sign of knock at that boost?
Have you ever ran your car with that setup on 99 Ron running 1.2 bar?
Any sign of knock at that boost?
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Danbob wrote:Bob are you running standard Rev 2 pistons, or lower compression ones?
Have you ever ran your car with that setup on 99 Ron running 1.2 bar?
Any sign of knock at that boost?
Everything is stock, but 110 octane fuel.
Every engine is going to knock on 99Ron and 1.2 bar boost, you have to hope the ECU keeps it under control but the power does drop off
Designer for turbo set ups on F1 cars, and Nitrous Oxide Systems of the USA in the 80s
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
If you don't mind me asking where do u get 110ron as the best I've seen is 102 at the ring
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
the bear1986 wrote:If you don't mind me asking where do u get 110ron as the best I've seen is 102 at the ring
It is a US racing fuel sold by a number of places over here. I can find you a contact if you want some.
Designer for turbo set ups on F1 cars, and Nitrous Oxide Systems of the USA in the 80s
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Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
I was running a standard ecu with Apexi AVCR set at 1.2 bar and saw injectors at 99-100%. I still see 98% with the PowerFC at 1.3 bar but that is a safe map of 10.5 AFR on WOT. OOps, forgot you are on about rev2 with CT26 and smaller injectors. sorry.
However, I tend to agree with Bob as I see other rev3's with similar mods to my car, running the same boost and producing very similar bhp figures and they are using std ecu. I think the standalone ECU is not really required until you start putting a bigger turbo and injectors in place. I dont think a piggy back ECU is going to give your setup a big jump in BHP.
However, I tend to agree with Bob as I see other rev3's with similar mods to my car, running the same boost and producing very similar bhp figures and they are using std ecu. I think the standalone ECU is not really required until you start putting a bigger turbo and injectors in place. I dont think a piggy back ECU is going to give your setup a big jump in BHP.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
What's the general going rate for a good condition CT20b?
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Gaz wrote:What's the general going rate for a good condition CT20b?
Anywhere from £200-300.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Yeah I've been offered them for around £300
I checked the headgasket yesterday and it appears not to have been changed for a MLS one
So as I definately do not have time to be changing the head gasket before the car is on the road I am abandoning the 300FWhp goal for now.
Going to be running CT26 Turbo technics 'hybrid' (Different compressor wheel, standard turbine)
3" Downpipe, 3" exhaust, Decat, 4" core intercooler, Blitz filter (with airbox if I get time) and 16PSI boost, and that will have to do me for now!
If I get it dyno'd I'll let you all know what that combination achieves
I checked the headgasket yesterday and it appears not to have been changed for a MLS one
So as I definately do not have time to be changing the head gasket before the car is on the road I am abandoning the 300FWhp goal for now.
Going to be running CT26 Turbo technics 'hybrid' (Different compressor wheel, standard turbine)
3" Downpipe, 3" exhaust, Decat, 4" core intercooler, Blitz filter (with airbox if I get time) and 16PSI boost, and that will have to do me for now!
If I get it dyno'd I'll let you all know what that combination achieves
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Do not run your car at 1.5 bar on a stock engine, you'll blow it up! Besides a CT20b isn't any good after 1.2 bar unless it has updated internals.
If your making 300-325bhp on 1.5 bar then that's pretty poor to be honest - a Rev 3 will make this on 1.2 bar fair easily.
Fit a CT20b, do a rev 3 conversion (injectors, headgasket & ECU) then you can run 1.2 bar safely. The Rev 3 has proper fuelling maps upto 1.2 bar so it can cope with the inreade without needing an aftermarket unit. The Rev 2 injectors are maxed out at 1 bar on a CT20b, also check the condition of your fuel pump, if its worn out you'll need to replace it before upping the boost as you don't want to run lean.
If your making 300-325bhp on 1.5 bar then that's pretty poor to be honest - a Rev 3 will make this on 1.2 bar fair easily.
Fit a CT20b, do a rev 3 conversion (injectors, headgasket & ECU) then you can run 1.2 bar safely. The Rev 3 has proper fuelling maps upto 1.2 bar so it can cope with the inreade without needing an aftermarket unit. The Rev 2 injectors are maxed out at 1 bar on a CT20b, also check the condition of your fuel pump, if its worn out you'll need to replace it before upping the boost as you don't want to run lean.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
I'm not planning on running anwhere near 1.5 bar lol I said 16PSI
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Advice wanted on tuning/mapping a Rev 2 Turbo
Danbob wrote:I'm not planning on running anwhere near 1.5 bar lol I said 16PSI
Don't worry I'm aware of that
It was when someone suggested 1.5 bar was a good idea