[Mk2] [NA] Bearings, Block and Squirters

[JesterTiger]

ok heres the under side of my block, showing the bearings and their condition.


Here's the pic of the Oil Squirters that im sure the NA 3S-GE doesnt normally have.


and i think i found the source of the odd knock clive..

[ashley]

3SGE engines do have have oil squirters bud

[JesterTiger]

tipical.. i read on some sites that 3S-GE's dont have them. only 3S-GTE's have squirters. then on post's on other forums its totally the opposite.. in my head i can't see why they would need to be on a NA engine. its for cooling the piston crown, normally on boosted applications. anyway kinda glad i took it apart. and glad we swapped it over.. doubt it would have been running for much longer the way it was.

[abovetherim]

How are the big ends?
Mine was like yours when i got it. The engine ran ok and sounded not too bad but i had to replace the gearbox and the cam belt + waterpump so i thought i'd drop the whole lot out and have a poke around.
I found some of the upper mains shagged and most of the big end shells to. So i replaced with ACL Duraglide and Clevite IIRC. Incidentally the thrust bearings were fine and well within BGB tolerances.
Good luck with getting it all buttoned back up
regards
Jan

oh and i have squirters and oil tensioner on a jdm rev1

[JesterTiger]

big ends had shown signs of going. there was a few scores on them from picking up crap. i have all new "Kings" bearings for both mains and Bigends from Hurley. the Thrust's were fine. Im still not convinced this block is NA. but it matters not. i was curious about the extra sealing ring on the top of the bore though. not seen a step put into the bore like that.. extra sealing is all i can think of.
I have gone for a total Rebuild. rings, bearings, gaskets, seals. when it goes back together i will do a picture by picture rebuild of it.

My JDm didnt have the oil squirters, and was a sprung tensioner. it did however have the 2 inlet cams that after reading a celica site, said that the Jap's put in to give more overlap and less overheating.. explains why they were different to what everyone kept telling me. hate arguing over stuff with people. I should trust people like Peter and Clive, since they have had MR2's longer than me. but its just my experience of engines telling me things like Oil squiters are for cooling the crowns of boosted engines. not normally found in NA engines. things like that.. however its all good info and i welcome it. just hoping after all this i get a lump that sings.. i cant wait till the day i fire it up..

[JesterTiger]

Also Ashman. http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=572610

"also, every 3S-GE engine has pre-plumbed oil passages in the block, on the turbo cars, these passages are used for oil squirters for cooling the underside of the pistons. GE cars however don't have these installed, but he passages are allready in the block!, any good machine shop could bore into these galleries so you can install the GTE oil squirters.
"

so who is right here?????

[rev3turbo]

Only the very early rev 1 3sge engines didnt have oil squirters, the rest do. Every na engine ive took to pieces (alot) have had squirters, bar 1.

You'd know if you had a turbo block, there would be a nice big hole in the side of it

[bobhatton]

Only the very early rev 1 3sge engines didnt have oil squirters, the rest do. Every na engine ive took to pieces (alot) have had squirters, bar 1.

You'd know if you had a turbo block, there would be a nice big hole in the side of it

Its not a big hole, they just get a small crack in number 2 bore when they go, but only leak water on boost so would be ok on a NA

[rev3turbo]

Its not a big hole, they just get a small crack in number 2 bore when they go, but only leak water on boost so would be ok on a NA

lol Bob

[ashley]

Surely the easiset way to tell if you have an NA block is to just look at the pistons? If it's a turbo the crowns will be flat topped to lower the compression ratio....simples

[Peter Gidden]

3SGE engines do have have oil squirters bud

Only the very early rev 1 3sge engines didnt have oil squirters, the rest do.

All 3S-GTEs and rev3 on N/As have squirters. Rev1/2 N/As do not have squirters.

[Peter Gidden]

Surely the easiset way to tell if you have an NA block is to just look at the pistons? If it's a turbo the crowns will be flat topped to lower the compression ratio....simples

Turbo pistons will fit in an N/A block.

BUT an N/A block will not have a threaded hole into the main gallery for the turbo oil supply. Easy!!!!

[rev3turbo]

Rev1/2 N/As do not have squirters.

Incorrect, ive took apart around 5 rev2 NA engines and 3 rev1's, they all had oil squirters barring one (one of the rev1's)

I did also take apart a gen1 3sgte from a st165, that didnt have oil squirters.

[Peter Gidden]

Rev1/2 N/As do not have squirters.

Incorrect, ive took apart around 5 rev2 NA engines and 3 rev1's, they all had oil squirters barring one (one of the rev1's)
.

Fair enough, you're right, Toyota are wrong.

[rev3turbo]

Rev1/2 N/As do not have squirters.

Incorrect, ive took apart around 5 rev2 NA engines and 3 rev1's, they all had oil squirters barring one (one of the rev1's)
.

Fair enough, you're right, Toyota are wrong.

It seems that way yes

surely youve a spare rev2 NA engine lying around, get the sump off, ill put my house on it having oil squirters. suprised you not seen them before tbh.

[Peter Gidden]

Incorrect, ive took apart around 5 rev2 NA engines and 3 rev1's, they all had oil squirters barring one (one of the rev1's)
.

Fair enough, you're right, Toyota are wrong.

It seems that way yes

surely youve a spare rev2 NA engine lying around, get the sump off, ill put my house on it having oil squirters. suprised you not seen them before tbh.

I've got two outside the workshop with sumps off, in the scrap pile. I looked earlier today.

Now i would have said that in agreement with Toyota's EPC, they never had squirters fitted. But now i'm beginning to think they were fitted, omitted from the EPC, and that some pikey has been in and stolen them...

[rev3turbo]

Thats some pikey you have there

[JesterTiger]

OK. so yes but no but maybe then reguarding the oil squirters.. ok what about these rings in the top of the bore? the bores themselves ate 86.00mm in diameter. on the top of the bore i know you sometimes get a step of carbon built up. well this is different. its another metal, different to the bore and to the block. inserted into the bore on all 4 of them. it reduces the bore to 85.50mm and is chamfered at the top edge. the other Rev1 engine doesnt have this. nor did it have the oil squirters. i took a video of it as well as pictures. can someone tell me why its in there?


yes i know it says 85.48mm my hand was shaking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILoZgjKbRhA

[JesterTiger]

other thing that comes to mind.. how the hell do i Hone the bore with these things in the way???

[JesterTiger]

i got a reply regarding these from a ex Toyota employee, apparently they are a Special Toyota Part. a piston slap eliminator ring. curious as the engine is non interference fit anyway why they would stick that in.. i have looked at all the pictures online of these engines. of replacement bores, of blocks, both GE and GTE and never seen it before. you can see now why im getting confused over all this.. the books say one thing, online says the same ish. but the engine doesn't... even the cam numbers didn't match anything on the lists.