What a sad sight

[cabbydave1]

Just off topic Chris Charged has got a wing your after at the same price as the one you were looking at

Are you stalking me?

Just trying to help you sell your wing and I know Chris is after a good one. I spotted it on here and flea gay as well

[Paul Cyclops]

Eventually the price will go up, but it will never a be a high value car. It seems to be the way that it's the cars with the racing heritage that seem to be sought after and get the high value. The MK1s lack of any motorsport history is a shame.

Also the cars are nowhere near low in numbers.

You've said this before, Lauren and I agree about the motorsport aspect. Having said that, I live and drive in central London practically daily. I'm fairly sure I've only seen one other MkI on the road this year. I've seen more Maybachs.

I also disagree about your rust-bucket perceptions - you can't seriously question the general quality then suggest there is an abundance of survivors, can you? A Mk I was/is notably less rust-prone than most of its mainstream contemporaries IMO. Thankfully

[Lauren]

To be fair, Paul, whether you see many MK1s on the road is not a fair indication of the number of cars left on the road. Numbers in the UK are around 1500 or IIRC from the last count. That's quite a lot to be fair.

They are utter rustbuckets made out of Italian steel. Pretty much every MK1 you can find will have rust on it. If it's not rusting it will be given time. I honestly don't think a MK1 is really any better than it's contemporaries when it comes to rust. Sure there are worse cars but there are also better ones.

[ian08]

numbers of the cars remaining and their rarity actually has less impact on values than you'd imagine.
Look at Triumphs, MG's , Jaguars and rwd Fords..... there are load left and yet they fetch good money.
Retro Jap stuff hasn't yet got the same kudos and desirability.
There is the odd exception like Celica 1600 ST's and Datsun Z cars but in the main, the classic car world is a bit snobbish when it comes to Japanese cars.
I bought classic and Sportcar mag a few months back and there were only 3 mentions of a retro jap car in the whole magazine of 420 pages.
I'm heavily involved with the 1st generation RX7 forum. There are only 200 of these cars left in the UK and only around 60 taxed and on the road and yet they fetch peanuts..... an absolute minter can be had for £2500.... most sell for sub £1000.
Compare that to a rusty 2 door MK1 or Mk2 Escort shell that makes just crazy money or a Ford Capri..... 15 years ago, you couldn't give a capri away..... now you can't get an mot'd one for under a grand.
Nostalgia, expendable incomes, rarity, motorsport pedigree, spares availablility, etc etc ....... all these things come into play.
The main thing is to keep as many on the road as possible otherwise people will stop making spares for them and experienced and dedicated owners will diminish.
Although MK1 prices have crept up slightly over the last couple of years, I think it'll be a good few years until they fetch serious money..... if ever!

[ian08]

To be fair, Paul, whether you see many MK1s on the road is not a fair indication of the number of cars left on the road. Numbers in the UK are around 1500 or IIRC from the last count. That's quite a lot to be fair.

The number we see about and about on the roads must be some indictation of how many left...... if there was half a million, they'd be everywhere! The fact that we seldom see one driving down the road must be a reflection of the number of roadworthy cars left.
The above figure of 1500, was that the number of registered UK cars not reported as scrapped or the number of vehicles currently taxed.....?
In other words, does that figure include the cars that are in Neil Jones back garden that will never see the road again but are presumably still on the dvla database?

[Paul Cyclops]

They are utter rustbuckets made out of Italian steel.

I'm not sure there's anything wrong with Italian steel. All those rapid disintegration Lancias and Alfas of the seventies and eighties were made from cheap imported Russian 'steel'. I had a five-year-old Alfasud Sprint in the early eighties that was immeasurably more rusty than my 25-year-old Mk I is or ever will be. Despite dealer-applied ziebart treatment, it was shedding around a kilo a month - you could watch the rear-arches disintegrating day-by-day

[Lauren]

I'm not sure there's anything wrong with Italian steel. All those rapid disintegration Lancias and Alfas of the seventies and eighties were made from cheap imported Russian 'steel'. I had a five-year-old Alfasud Sprint in the early eighties that was immeasurably more rusty than my 25-year-old Mk I is or ever will be. Despite dealer-applied ziebart treatment, it was shedding around a kilo a month - you could watch the rear-arches disintegrating day-by-day

There's a lot wrong with 1980s Italian Steel. It was of poor quality (high iron content or low grade) and lets be honest, Toyota did not do a good job of rust proofing back then.

@Ian. You see cars regularly on the road that have sold in vast numbers. It doesn't really work for older cars (which are less likely to be daily drivers) or are simply only in the few thousand left. So, yes, there is something in it, but it's not exactly anyway accurate.

Those number left will include rotten cars that have not been scrapped. Numbers are still high though.

[Paul Cyclops]

[Toyota did not do a good job of rust proofing back then.

We'll have to agree to disagree then as I believe they're better built and rust-proofed than the majority of other 80's cars.

Anyways, seeing as how you once formed a splendid lobster-claw with a MkI and a road-sign (or was it a lamp-post?), you should be better aware than most that it's not that bad a product for build and structural integrity

[elbon50]

I'm not the person you refer to above Paul

I returned the boss to you many moons ago

I sent you my PayPal address

You said you would refund me but I never received the money

I have reminded you about the refund on several occasions

Will PM you the details again

Please refund me without any further delay

Peter

Peter why don't you just call him?

I've long a go done everything I need to do Alex

Just need the money refunded

With reference to the above, I am now pleased to say that Paul Sims has fully refunded me for the steering wheel hub, including postage costs

Thanks Paul, that's the end of that matter so far as I'm concerned

[Ridge Racer]

Very sad picture... Though to be fair there are afew there that are only good for that sort of thing...

Sad to see...

It looks like hes moving onto mark 2's as well: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1992-3-TOYOTA ... 2ec2748418

[pk_090]

The range rover is probably only half full!
It is such a shame, but the thing that annoys me the most is the crazy amounts both the main breakers want for parts.
Alex

[elbon50]

the thing that annoys me the most is the crazy amounts both the main breakers want for parts.
Alex

A case of supply & demand I think Alex

If they can get those prices they'll keep asking 'em

Perhpas it would be better for all of us if Neil Jones & Paul Sims were regular contributers to IMOC ?

Then we could have continuing coversations with them about this sort of thing

[SuperRedMR2]

He may think he's doing a good thing for mk1 owners but as stated earlier on, the environmental damage is unnecessary!

[PW@Woodsport]

I find this thread hypocritical to say the least, those that are unhappy about the breakers pricing or methods, why don't you go to Mr Sims or Mr Jones place and rescue one, spend the money needed to keep it alive and then sell it for a profit or keep it and enjoy it?

Either that or get off the soap box.

The reality is there are still thousands of these cars, 20 lying in a field aren't going to affect anything at all, hell i've despatched way more than that over the years. The scrappage scheme too got rid of literally hundreds i'm betting.

Jones and Sims are providing us with parts to help keep our own cars alive.... you do realise that the cars that don't end up being broken simply get crushed for scrap with no recycling back into the Mk1 community at all?

They're both providing a service wether you like the pricing or not, if you don't like the price then don't buy, it's as simple as that, but stop whinging about it or put your money down and buy one of their easily fixed cars.

[cabbydave1]

I think Paul is trying to sell 4 of his cars at the moment one still taxed and tested on thats a really nice black mk1a that I would have if I had any spare cash and two red ones that I havent seen but anyone wants a cheap project it might be worth having a chat with him I know hes posted them on the mk1 forum

[Lauren]

He'll need to become an affilliate if he wishes to trade on here.

[Peter Gidden]

They're both providing a service wether you like the pricing or not, if you don't like the price then don't buy, it's as simple as that, but stop whinging about it or put your money down and buy one of their easily fixed cars.

+1.

[craig]

They're both providing a service wether you like the pricing or not, if you don't like the price then don't buy, it's as simple as that, but stop whinging about it or put your money down and buy one of their easily fixed cars.

+1.

+2

[elbon50]

Paul posted on here saying that he had cars to sell as viable units

I saw the post on here this morning before it mysteriously disappeared

I thought the point was that he does not strip every car including viable ones as alleged earlier in this thread

He's only just started to post on IMOC, it seems to me that he's been harshly treated re this

[pk_090]

Don't get me wrong, id love to go out and buy another one, two or maybe a third, but unfortunately i do not have the space to keep/work on them. If i did, i would. Also i don't have a problem, with the fact they are running a business, but when neither of them drive mk1's, attend events etc dosn't really feel like they are part of the community, just purely there to be making money.