gen 4 3sgte engine

[scottietse]

can it be done?

Im thinking of buying a rev 5 mr2 (n/a) then transplanting gen 4 3gste engine.

good idea or bad?

[RobCrezz]

can it be done?

Im thinking of buying a rev 5 mr2 (n/a) then transplanting gen 4 3gste engine.

good idea or bad?

Yeah, why not!

[LimeyMk1]

Doesn't the Gen 4 (ST165) 3SGTE have a substantially different engine management system and ancilliary setup? It's def not 100% the same as a Rev 1 MR2's engine

I know the injectors are 250cc top feeds and it's got AFM rather than MAP which will cause some issues with wiring (you'll need to adapt the ST165 loom).



It's probably do-able but may be more cost effective and simpler to find an MR2 Turbo rear clip.

[scottietse]

Apparently its not st185 but st215...

I been trying to read up on it but cannot find anyone who has done this to a 2.

260 bhp apparently.

and not just that can find engines as late as 2002 with low mileage.

[JJ]

Whose speed reading in here ???!

Gen 4 3SGTE - 96-98 ??!

Not that old scrapper Gen 1 3SGTE gas guzzling unit !!

[scottietse]

found in the GT-T Caldina.

[Rogue]

You're talking about the Caldina engine then? I'm sure it can be done, but there's likely to be a little more to the wiring than a normal swap. It's more akin to the BEAMS engine in that it has coil-on-plug etc, so you'll need a solution for your tacho. I'm also not sure what level of CAN-Bus integration the ECU requires, so if your budget allows a standalone engine management system may cut out a lot of hassle.

Interstingly, the exhaust manifold also incorporates the hot side of the turbo - seemd an obvious way to go when you think about it!

Patrick

[LimeyMk1]

Whose speed reading in here ???!

Gen 4 3SGTE - 96-98 ??!

Not that old scrapper Gen 1 3SGTE gas guzzling unit !!

Woops, comes from owning a Celica I think of a Gen 4 as an ST162/5.

Rev1-5 for MK2s, Gen 4-7 for Celicas.

[scottietse]

so rogue...

if I was to go down this route would you consider undertaking the work?

very tempting....

and what what stand alone management would you suggest?

[JJ]

I dont really see the benefits to fitting the ST215 engine in since you'd have to throw away / modify bits of it !! For the time chucked at rewiring, you may as well put toward modification / turbo change.

From memory of ST185/ST205 conversions and Matrix differences :

Distributerless....
Rewire of the harness to MR2 including stupid immobiliser and Air bag stuff
Intercooler
Gearbox
Alternator relocation
Junk the PAS
Host of new vac line plumbing
Change the sensor array at the head to suit the MR2 filling neck
Downpipe ? One piece turbo ?!
Throttle Assembly ( fly by wire ? )

You'd be back down to bare block and a rev 3 harness chucked onto it ! with rev 3 ancillaries bolted to it !

Modifications takes a lot of time = plenty of £££ = no benefits for standard OEM parts.

So you'd be back to square one... Needing a gearbox ££, driveshafts ££, hubs ££ ££

The only "real" difference I see is the distributerless setup... and that can be bought and installed if you want to stagger the firing... but in my eyes... its not formula 1 engine spinning to insane rpms !

[Rogue]

if I was to go down this route would you consider undertaking the work?

For sure. We seem to be doing a lot of work with newer generation Toyota engines recently, and one of our guys here has been researching the Caldina as he's thinking of getting one.

and what what stand alone management would you suggest?

We favour the Link G4 ECU, which has the added bonus of already supporting the engine type you're suggesting. I can't tempt you to a revision 5 BEAMS turbo engine can I?

http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=111192



Patrick

[jon_st205]

Allegedly the rev4 3SGTE has the block cracking problem fixed (waterways) - perhaps Patrick can expand on that. Big advantage over rev3 is upping the power.

Also a side-feed manifold is a useful bonus.

Jon

[Rogue]

Allegedly the rev4 3SGTE has the block cracking problem fixed (waterways) - perhaps Patrick can expand on that. Big advantage over rev3 is upping the power.

We haven't yet had the pleasure of an ST215 3SGTE block, but we did build a flow rig last year to test revision 1/2 blocks and revision 3+ so we would be interested to see the differences.

Patrick

[Slarty]

Slightly OT but still on a theme.....I'd love to have a discussion about "thick walled" blocks some time...To say I'm dubious of their exsistance would be an understatement....

[jon_st205]

They do exist but it's much more random than going by a > date = thickwall. I guess different production lines/quality control (though odd for Toyota). We're talking a minimal difference in thicknesses after all, so maybe we should say 'slightly less thinwall' rather than 'thickwall'.

A contributing reason for block cracking is thought to be down to poor coolant flow (cavitation?) around 2 & 3 cyls water jacket, which along with the slightly leaner/hotter conditions in those cyl's and an on-the-limit wall thickness inevitable leads to problem, especially when the engine is taken outside of its' design parameters.

Jon

[rgb]

iv got a gen 4 in my rev 5

[greeny]

Its been done in the states a few times.

Try searching on mr2oc.com

The caldina engine is a very nice upgrade, has the extra casting around the water pump area (where some 3s blocks crack) COP, one piece ct20 exhaust/turbo manifold, different intake cam, side feed intake manifold etc.

JJ, you'd be surprised at the difference a decent crank/cam sensor can make on the 3sgte! I was

Im not sure whether the cylinder walls are any different in thickness though (id guess not), so if your wanting to go big power then thats something to consider, that whilst the water pump area is re-inforced then it may still crack on the walls.

HTH.

[Quigonjay]

iv got a gen 4 in my rev 5

any pics mate?

[sinjen]

I've nearly finished mine

[Glenn_k]

I've just finished my st215 swap, you can read about it in my member profile.
The engine itself bolts up just like any other 3sgte, but you need to be aware of the following problems:
-The engine loom doesn't hook up to the main wire loom of your mr2, this has to be customized (not for the electrically faint hearted, i paid someone to do mine)
-The intake is side-fed, meaning you have to make a custom intercooler setup (i'm using a st205 chargecooler, but you can go sidemount or trunkmount of course)
-The downpipe (with cat) doesnt line up with the exhaust. You'd have to modify this slightly. If you want to delete the cat, you'll have to go completely custom. I've bought an ebay downpipe and am going to modify this.
If you have any questions, you can always ask/pm me.