Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

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RyanRs
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Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by RyanRs »

Two problems that prevented us from going for those high bhp numbers today; these were...

1. External wastegate not doing what it should (staying closed)

and (more importantly)

2. Throttle fuel enrichment playing up bigtime!

Throttle enrichment..

Basically, giving the throttle a WOT blip from idle should cause an almost instant increase in engine revs. However mine is not quite doing this. Upon flooring the throttle the ECU does not seem to enrich the mixture quick enough to prevent it going lean and therefore causes the revs to bog down a few rpms before picking back up again. Going on and off the throttle at any revs seems to give the same issue and if you was to 'pump' the throttle pedal a couple of times the issue would amplify due to it not having recovered from the first 'pump'. This was never an issue the last time it was mapped and i am using the same fuel system, MAP sensor, TB and TPS.
Obv Ryan played with all the settings he could think of, we played with fuel pressure, TPS sensitivity, throttle enrichment etc but no joy. We also tested the impedance of the injectors to check they are low and indeed they are.

Not sure if this is related but I did make a slight mistake with the wiring of the 1zz cops, i wired them in back to front (#4 in #1 and #3 in #2) and the same with the injectors, fixing this minor issue did not resolve the enrichment issue and the car ran exactly the same as before; However after doing this, for some reason the base ignition timing then became out by 360 deg and we had to set the cam trigger offset to -360' to get the crank timing mark flashing back at 10' on the cam cover.

Ryan.g and myself cannot think why this is happening as everything is working correctly sensor and mechanical wise, It almost seems like the ecu is just responding too slowly to the throttle position change and not adding the fuel soon enough to compensate!


The second issue, Wastegate..

It is a 44mm Tial MV-R plumbed into a Profec-B controller.

Setup is as follows...

Com (solenoid) to top MV-R port
NO (solenoid) to Side MV-R port + 'Tee' off to vacuum source which i got from my intake manifold.

Spring is a 1.2 bar and its not opening at all! The boost will spike and hit map cut.

Can anyone help with any of these issues? Beers for whichever individual finds a solution!! :thumright:

Thanks
Ryan
uglee
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by uglee »

Did you keep an eye on fuel pressure when blipping the throttle?
RyanRs
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by RyanRs »

Not at first but once off the dyno and outside we continued to fault find -thats when we realised the injectors were wired in , in the wrong order. I suggested raising the fuel pressure so we tried that and kept an eye then. FPR base was set to 20psi and i increased to 40 which did infact help very slightly but there was still a serious issue.
Driftlimits Performance
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Driftlimits Performance »

There the terminals on the b2 for internal waste gate no? I thought it was on and com you need.
Kongaroo
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Kongaroo »

Have you checked how many volts the ECU is reading from the TPS when idling and when under WOT?

How many volts do you see for each?
RyanRs
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by RyanRs »

Im not too sure if i can check the volts but the software does work in real-time and displays real-time TPS readings. The readings (in %) match the throttle position nicely. Obv calibrating this is one of the first things we did.
Martinbattye
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Martinbattye »

hello!

most obviously

from how you describe the wastegate is incorrectly plumbed.


in regards to your ~TPS enrich problem..

you either still have you motor out of phase. or its incorrectly tuned.

please send me your .pcl file to martinbattye(at)hotmail.com.
RyanRs
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by RyanRs »

Well i am pretty sure i have sorted the problem with the wastegate now, stupid problem tbh! I did not realise there was 3 side ports and two top ports for easier installation and i didnt have the remaining unused ports plugged up! so the vacuum/pressure was just leaking straight out. Tbh i reckon the bolts had actually vibrated loose and fallen out as i swear i did put them in a few months back and now i cannot find them anywhere! But yeah, i reckon that was my issue there -just a shame i cannot go out and give it a quick test to be sure :(

I personally reckon with regard to the engine throttle up trouble , its down to the engine being out of phase. I am pretty convinced that i have the crank 180' out. It would explain why i have to delay my coils by 360 deg before they fire as it would put the piston back on its correct stroke. I shall do the 'pole down the hole' trick on #1 to check for TDC soon as Saturday arrives.
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Driftlimits Performance »

The unused port on the solenoid vents I thought?
RyanRs
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by RyanRs »

yea thats correct but if you look at the MV-R, it has a total of 5 vacuum ports!! two ports for the top, 3 for the side; most only have two, side and top. They are there to make installation easier so there is no need to disassemble the EWG to rotate the head in position for the hoses to fit. The Ports that you don't use tho must be plugged.

Only problem with this tho is tial use awkward bloomin sizes! m10 x 1.0.. not many plugs about in that size!! :(
T.F.S.
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by T.F.S. »

well many thanks to martin for taking the time to explain the problem, im sure ryan.g knows how to plumb up a boost solonoid though right?
Martinbattye
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Martinbattye »

and correctly align ecu triggers?
Ryan.g
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Ryan.g »

T.F.S. wrote:well many thanks to martin for taking the time to explain the problem, im sure ryan.g knows how to plumb up a boost solonoid though right?


Yes thanks for explaining the problem... just cant see it :-s

You would be surprised how many people actually get the boost solenoid plumbing wrong! Even Apexi,greddy and AEM state how to plumb up the valves wrong! :wink: But then they cant change the phase linearization output on the PWM like on Proper ecu's to control the Valves properly when in external setups as pressurising the normally closed port doesn't work on cars running big boost!
Ryan.g
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Ryan.g »

Oh and if its was out of phase by 360 using the stock triggers on a 3sgte it wouldn't even run! as they cant run in 360 alone as the crank sensor has no missing teeth.

I still think there is a small leak on the map sensor pipe or a restriction causing the Accel enrichment problem.
Martinbattye
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Martinbattye »

Yeah i know what your saying about the tuning house boost controllers. Although profec avcr etc with that solenoid type can be plumbed for add to increase rather than bleed to increase.
Tune the accel with TPS. Not map. Only time you use map is in a group fire arrangement since the ecu can't determine which cylinder to enrich so just drops PW to all drives. Rather than increasing and fading pump extra in sequential manner.
Usually most peoples map pipe is like 2feet long or more(skyline install) so map based enrich has a huge latency before it works. So usually the tuner finds it bogs then overfuels and cannot work out why. If you tried to tune it out the map delta would be so sensitive you would be false triggering all the time.
Hope that helps.
Ryan.g
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Ryan.g »

Accel is done through tps but if the map sensor is slow to react on the fuel table then it causes havoc with accel.

Problem found BTW it was a brass restrictor in the T piece feeding the map sensor.
Martinbattye
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Re: Ok, Dyno day result = Problems! Myseld and Ryan.g scratching heads @ this one!

Post by Martinbattye »

Ryan.g wrote:Accel is done through tps but if the map sensor is slow to react on the fuel table then it causes havoc with accel.

Problem found BTW it was a brass restrictor in the T piece feeding the map sensor.



LOL... well at least its fixed now..
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