Woodsport longer 5th gear

[cartledge_uk]

Thanks for the info Bill

[crazybrightman]

top notch! thanks very much for all that its a great bit of research and trial and error. i shall now be on the hunt for some second hand gears.
on a side note having pulled the end cover off 2 different boxes i know have 5th gear nod and pop out it seems the fix is quite simple. the syncro hub teeth wear where it locks onto 5th gear causing a a ramp angle to form forcing the syncro hub and 5th gear apart. the 5th gear teeth seem much harder than the hub and suffer little wear so id say a new or decent used syncro hub will fix any nod and popping out issues. however until ive tried this i cant be certain.
hopfuly ill find a good c51 5th gear set so i can try out the ratio change and hub change at the same time.
also side tracking a little more has anyone else noticed how much end float there is in the input shaft? i have 3 boxes 2 know to have done way over 100k and one unknown millage and all have 2-3mm of play in the input shaft. on taking 5th gear off to reveal the outboard bearing i cant see how you shim the play out as theres only a spacer shim behind 5th gear, or is that the asjuster? that would seem to put exsessive load onto the retainer clip on the end of 5th gear so seems unlikely. ill have to pull a box apart today and have a look.

[Clarky_X]

right, I've been stiffed by Toyota. All credit to Bill who actually found the right gears to use and I went and bought brand new ones from Toyota and counted the teeth and checked the shaft centres and they are the ones. Now I was hoping they'd take the other gears back (the ones that are the std ratio) because they haven't been fitted and are still in the original packaging.

They did tell me when I ordered that they were non refundable but because they came off the shelf somewhere (ordered Monday, in stock Wednesday) I was hoping they'd put them back into stock. But no. Toyota GB head office have a 20 day return policy and if you are outside that ( which I was because I was waiting for some good weather to work on my drive way) then no joy. So I've actually bought 4 bloody gears and I only need 2. So I'm about £240 down (further than need be).

I may write to Toyota GB and see if they will bend the rules but I'm not holding out any hope.

So if anyone wants new 5th gears in std ratio and wants to offer me £200 ono then I can sort you out with some std ratio gears.

[34atm85]

Ok all wrapped up in 20 minutes, if you go to toyota and order the following gears...

33428-12050 -5th driven
33036-12051 -5th gear

They are the extended 0.725:1 gear set that will fit a mk1 gearbox.The only thing that is unknown is wether the synchro on fifth is compatible between the two but im betting it will be, at least for the later C52 box anyway.

Job sorted.

I love this forum

I replaced my fifth gear including syncro with a 5th gear from Yaris 1.4 D4D. It is now perfect and driving at fifth gear around 45mph is only 1900 rpm. If the engine can rev up to 7000 RPM it will be a clean 150mph car.

[bill hulme]

tools that I have used, I used a Bearing puller in the grove of the gear that is held on with the nut, I had to grind the side off one side of the two
pullers to clear the other shaft,

this is the puller I made to remove the synchromesh Assembly, there are 3 flats the you can just get into where the brass synchromesh ring is,


I hope this helps.
Bill.

[Clarky_X]

Cheers Bill. I took them off the other way round which is why I was struggling with the lock nut cos I left that gear to last and didn't have the other gear on to lock the two together. So I had to put the gear with the synchro ring back on and it still wouldn't lock is wanted to slide off the shaft so I had to just pop the hub gear back on a little to keep it in place, then the lock nut came off.

I then took the other gear back off with the hub and still have the final 5th driven gear in place that is being a right pain.

My standard 3 inch 3 leg puller got the hub off using the flats where the synchro ring has gaps, just like you say.

I will have to get one of those cup type bearing pullers though as my 3 leg pullers just won't get any purchase on it, nor in 2 leg mode, and I borrowed another 2 leg bar puller with smaller feet to hook under the gear and into the groove, but it just wanted to twist off when it got tight, so it seems to need the extra contact area of the cup puller to get it.

I also had to cut a small square off a 5mm steel flat to cover the hole in the end of the shaft to give the pullers something to push against.

What seemed like such a simple job (which I'm sure it is if you have all the tools) is turning into a right pain. This is my 4th attempt, so a word of warning to anyone attempting, make sure you have ALL the tools needed before you start, and you take the lock nut off the driven gear first. (That's a right hand i.e. normal thread, not like the clockwise backward thread of the Mk2 box as in Paul Wood's Mk2 write up, if you are using that for further inspiration).

[Clarky_X]

Right, I did it, with a little help from a mate to hammer the new gears on. Bill was kind enough to post me his puller (the two half cup one) which he was also kind enough to let me grind another flat spot on so I didn't need to drop the gearbox. Putting the extra flat spot at around the 10-11 o'clock position allows the puller to be rotated slightly enough for the top slider arm to come under the inner wheel arch lip.

Putting the new gears on was probably the hardest, they both took a fair bit of hammering with a socket and a lump of wood which is where it comes in real handy to have a friend because they can get some real swing on the hammer while you lay under the car holding the socket in place.

I replaced both gears, the selector fork, the synchro ring and the sleeve that goes onto 5th. The synchro ring was a 96 corrola part and has far far fewer teeth on it than the one I took off and you do have to be very careful to line the correct bits up before smashing the hub back on. All parts were new from Toyota and it cost me a pretty penny as I replaced so much.

The hub was the only bit I didn't change as it doesn't wear, but be careful when putting it back on because one of the three little sliding teeth fell out twice and the cir-clip came out and it didn't seem to have much tension in it when I put it back on and I was paranoid about it coming off again and one of them teeth falling out in the gearbox.

Anyway, I put the oil back in this morning (made a filler neck from 2m of garden hose and a funnel) and took it on a test drive and it is all working, no nodding of the gear lever in 5th and nothing fell off.

I do now unfortunately have a nod in 2nd. The lever comes forward when backing off. It hasn't jumped out and I don't think it will yet, but I don't know how long it will be before it does, but then you don't stay in 2nd long do you and when you back off it's cos you want it to come out of 2nd into 3rd, so I'm hoping it won't be a problem, but I an only assume that the damage was done while we were hammering the gears back on.

We did actually wind the small gear back on with the lock nut for the last 1 - 1.5 turns or so with about 3 extenders and a breaker bar as it was so tight but I just couldn't bring myself to keep hammering and I didn't want to bang it on too far and knew that the gear that came off had the end of the lock nut about flush with the end of the shaft.

So the figures.
70mph is now 3100rpm instead of 3600
22.581mph/1000rpm
So a theoretical max at 7500 of 171.6mph.

I know that's unlikely and a bit crazy, but even so, a 150mph Mk1? Bonkers.

Anyway, I only did it to drop the revs on the commute and improve mpg. I should be in the 40's now, the last couple of tanks full on the old gear returned 33mpg and 38mpg with different types of commute on B and A roads inc dual carriageway and 50mph contraflow.

Anyway, that's enough from me. Thanks to all that have been involved in this mod, researching and attempting, especially Bill for doing it first and without buying new stuff from Toyota and to my mate Andy for lending me so many of his tools and his time and also especially to my wife for losing me under the car for days on end when things were not going my way.

[ufer]

Hi Paul,
Hi Lauren,
Hi Bill,
Hi Klarky,
Hi all,

Greetings from Bulgaria. I’ve read all your opinions and realized ideas on the MR2 MK1 with the "5th gear pop out" and the long 5th gear. You have done a great job! I’m interesting how it seems now – more than a year after the conversion (economy, losing/wining power at high revs, ect. ...)? Would you tell your last experiences? Is it worth it to change the original gears from C50 with the gears from C51 gearbox (Carina E 1.8 7afe)? Now I have the “5th gear pop out” problem and before I begin to solve the problem I would like to know more about it. My MR2 MK1 is almost in a perfect shape and that is the only serious problem after 225 000 km.

[Clarky_X]

Hi Ufer. Thanks for the PM. I didn't get an email notification that this thread had been replied to.

I just re-read what mpg I was getting last year. I stopped checking my mpg actually, but thought the last time I checked it it was about 32mpg. But I do shorter journeys now. About 12 miles each way to the gym and work from home a lot. Client site is about 40 miles away.

I generally fill up after 180-200 miles and think I get about 220miles out of a tank before I really am desperate to fill up.

But I've had absolutely no issues with the gearbox at all. But I did spend the best part of £300 on new Toyota parts because I couldn't be bothered to go through all the hassle of taking old gears off in a scrap yard.

The only slight issue we had was a nod in first/second probably from hammering the gear on. But as I'm only in those gears for a short time it has never caused any problem.

However, now the car has failed MOT on welding and hand brake, so I am stripping it for the track and going to get a 1MZ-FE put in. So have bought a 1MZFE camry to drive round in for a while.

So the engine and gearbox are not needed. I will be selling a lot of bits off the car. I don't have an engine crane to get the engine out, or anywhere to store it, but am happy to sell the engine and gearbox if anyone wants to take them out on my drive while I pass them spanners and tea.

Stephen.

[ufer]

Hi Stephen,
Hi Bill,

Thanks for your answers! I have checked many possibilities about the conversion with the Carina E 7afe 1.8 1996/97 gears but I have still problems with the article numbers. The difference could be coming from the RH driving in England and LH driving in the rest of Europe. I don’t know exactly! And I bought the car in Swiss! For the left hand driving ToyoDIY gives the following numbers: 33428-12050 -5th driven and 33036-12051 -5th gear (as in the beginning by Paul Woods) and you (Bill and Stephen?) have used: 5th driven- 33428-12100 (29 teeth) and 5th gear- 33036-12160 (40 teeth). These numbers I couldn’t find by ToyoDIY to compare the right Carina model. So in that case I have some questions and some variants. I hope you’ll be so kind to help me to get the best decision.

1. Which of both sets should I use: 33428-12050 plus 33036-12051 or 33428-12100 plus 33036-12160 (Carina E only)?
2. I’ve found by ToyoDIY also another possible variant: 33428-12060 plus 33036-12061 (Carina E only)!?
3. Should I use in these cases the RING, SYNCHRONIZER: 33369 12020 (AW11) or 33369 12030 (Carina E)?
4. Should I use the HUB, TRANSMISSION CLUTCH, NO. 3: 33393 12010 (AW11) or 33393 12030 (Carina E)?
5. Should I use the SLEEVE, TRANSMISSION HUB, NO. 3: 33395 12010 (AW11) or 33395 12011 (Carina E)?
6. In that case (Pos. 5) should I use instead the FORK, 5TH SHIFT: 33214 12010 (AW11) the FORK 33214 10022 (Carina E – I couldn’t find another number!)?
7. Very important question! Are the original article numbers punched on the parts for the 5th gear or are written only on the package? Europe is full with imitations and I suppose even Toyota makes no exclusion! It depends not from Toyota, of course, it depends from the greedy dealers, especially in Eastern Europe!

I suppose it’s not so complicated as I write and maybe I should change only the both gears and all other parts are from AW11 but I need a little bit more sureness. I’ve found the parts (extremely expensive - Toyota!!!) but in Bulgaria is not so easy as in England or Germany to get the parts back after the order. For my big sorrow I don’t have the right to make mistakes! In other case the easiest way to repair the 5th gear pop-out is to change the original AW11 parts! But I like conversions!!!

Best regards!

Ivo

[toxo]

Hopefully I can save you confusion over 1 part:

5. Should I use the SLEEVE, TRANSMISSION HUB, NO. 3: 33395 12010 (AW11) or 33395 12011 (Carina E)?

This part number is only 1 digit different. This (almost) always means that the Carina part (ends -12011) replaces/supercedes the AW11 part (ends -12010). So if you ordered the AW11 part you would instead get the Carina part as it replaces the older part. This can be down to a weakness in the older part or a slight redesign.

This kind of information (what parts supercede other parts) is pretty much only available to Toyota dealers. However I do have a shoebox full of EPC CDs that fell out the back of a Toyota van, when I can get time I will load them all up and then we can compare information like this.

[bill hulme]

Hi, the chassis number of the gears, that came of the car I removed the gears from was, SB164ABK10E084824
1.8 7AFE CARINA E
Is your car a 1A or a 1B mine was a 1B.
If you can get your Toyota dealer to search the chassis number
for the 5th gear numbers you should then have the right gears.
I hope this helps.
Bill.

[ufer]

Thank you very much for your advices but I'm still very unsure for the parts I need. My MR2 is a 1A model - April 1986: almost oldtimer. I do not have enough possibilities to check everything. The dealers by us wasn't very gently when I asked them for help. They only want to sell the parts and the information I need for the conversion takes some more time to research. Now I'm also in a hurry because some relatives of mine have found most of the parts in Spain with much better prices as in Bulgaria and they will come back in a month. I'll be very grateful if somebody tries to check the variants which I have described a day before. And I really trust you more then the Toyota dealers. Some of them have never made their hands dirty! I have checked personally the article numbers for my AW11A and I'm sure they are exactly! My troubles are coming from the combination with the Carina E parts. In worst case I'll buy the original parts and will give up from the conversion! But I still have a little bit time!

Greetings from Bourgas - on the Black sea coast!

Ivo

[Clarky_X]

Absolutely don't trust the Toyota dealers. The ones I used said that they wouldn't take the parts back if I fitted them and found they were wrong and couldn't guaranttee that they were the right ones. I just went in with some part numbers and ordered the bits. I then found that the number of teeth were the same so they were no good, but this was some time later. After the 30 day return time for unused parts.

I took them back and left them at Toyota for them to see what they could do about accepting the return and they rang to say they wouldn't take them back. I then wrote to head office and explained my predicament and that they could still sell the parts full price as they were unsoiled. I even bigged up the MR2 that it was 24 years old and still a daily driver, but the reply from head office was nice to hear that but sorry we can't accept the parts back.

So I went to pick up the bits I'd left there to try and sell them on eBay and was very lucky that they had done a stock take and lost the parts so they then had no choice to refund me the full price for the incorrect parts.

I had already bought the new parts brand new from Toyota so had spent nearly £600 so was keen to get the money back. But I was very lucky and Toyota could not confirm what parts would work and what would not. Their computer only tells them what original parts fit an original car, no inter model compatibility.

[bill hulme]

Hi Ivo, the only parts I had to change was the 2 gears, the rest was the
same.
Bill.

[ufer]

Thanks Stephen, Thanks Bill,

I almost have a clear picture for the conversion. The two Carina's gears and the rest - original AW11A parts! But some more questions if you permit!

1. I've found in Spain the "5th GEAR" from Carina E 96/97 1.8 7afe, C51 (40 teeth): 33036-12160. Here is everything OK.

2. May I use the "SYNCHRONIZER RING" from Carina E....: 33369-12030 with the rest of original AW11A parts or should I take in any case: 33369-12020?

3. I couldn't find in Spain the "5th GEAR DRIVEN" from Carina E....(29 teeth): 33428-12100! I found: 33428-12200! But I have no idea from which model the part is. The dealer doesn't know too!? ToyoDIY also says nothing! And the number of the teeth we can count after the sell! Do you have some information about this number?

Best regards!

Ivo

[toxo]

33428-12200! But I have no idea from which model the part is. The dealer doesn't know too!? ToyoDIY also says nothing! And the number of the teeth we can count after the sell! Do you have some information about this number?

That is not a valid part number. My best guess would be that someone has made a mistake writing the number down.

[ufer]

Thank you TOXO,

I have asked indirectly again the dealer in Spain about the differences between the article numbers: 33395-12010 and 33395-12011 (SLEEVE); 33428-12100 and 33428-12200 (5th GEAR DRIVEN) including the counting of the teeth. I hope he'll do his job if not perfect, minimum good enough!

Best regards

Ivo