Front Suspension Modifications ?

Discussion and technical advice for 84-89 AW10 & AW11 MR2. 3A-LU, 4A-GE, 4A-GZE.

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jnoiles
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:06 pm

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by jnoiles »

Jim-SR wrote:Budget is always the reason. It does beg the question of where else corners get cut though.


Everywhere you can. Within reason. Some peoples 'within reason' differ from others. Budget is always on the mind of someone paying for their own race car.

Jim-SR wrote:£200 saved on cutting springs, a component which, if it failed on say the entry to Paddock Hill Bend at Brands Hatch, could result in death for the driver, other drivers, spectators, etc. Hell, an MR2 cleared the catch fence in a "racing incident" there the other week, without throwing component failures into the mix.


Racing is a dangerous hobby. As a driver you weigh up the risks. If the balance between the factors is right, you go for it. Most of the field are able to rationalise the risk of cut springs. Again, I'm not saying its a perfect solution, it's clearly not, but it works.

And the fence clearing incident was a freak occurance. That could have happened to any two cars who found themselves wedged into the armco. That wasn't a component failure.

Jim-SR wrote:For me, the old "people have done it for years, and competed in 10,000,000,000 races without a problem, so why not?" argument doesn't float.


Why not? People have been using unleaded petrol for years. It seems to work. Yes, it's highly flammable and could cause you horrendous injury in a crash. But we all still do it. On average The Bad Thing doesn't happen all that often. Studying the failure rate of a given solution before making the call on whether or not to implement that solution is an entirely valid method.

Jim-SR wrote:Carroll Smith used to quote "Murphy's Law" over and over again in his books, and it always springs to mind when I'm even contemplating bodging something - "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. And will do so at the worst possible moment". Along with "do it right or do it twice".


In all honesty I'd trust the cut down springs more than some of the 25 year old toyota original bits left in my mk1.

Jim-SR wrote:For all the times that bodged springs have worked, it only takes that one occasion when one goes wrong, and somebody (potentially multiple people) could die.


As per previous comments, racing is dangerous. That's part of the thrill ;)

Jim-SR wrote:It's racing, I never understand how people can justify doing something to a track/race car that they probably wouldn't deem safe on a road car.


Because unlike a road car a race car has a much narrower set of operating parameters. It has to go fast and handle a reasonably consistent surface for 15 mins. Unlike a road car that has to work in all conditions on dirt roads, through potholes, in the snow etc etc. Narrow the parameters and you can exagerate some properties.



Jim-SR wrote: As if crashing a race car is acceptable because it's got a roll cage and you're wearing a lid.


Nobody, least of all the guy in the race car wants a crash. But its part of racing. Go out on the track enough times and it'll happen. That's why we wear the helmets and the HANS devices and the 6 point harnesses.

Jim-SR wrote:My personal opinions aren't going to suddenly change the mindset of those that are intent on saving themselves money. So I'm not going to argue about it, just wanted to make my point. In the MR2 racing series' where regulations prohibit simply running proper race coilover units, suspension is about the only area with any performance freedom at all.


Oddly perhaps, in light of my comments above, this is one of the reasons I'm moving to a new race series next year. I'm tired of arsing about with control components that are supposed to make things cheap but in reality are just end up being awkward. I want a set of decent coilovers, not inserts and random guesswork springs. My being more comfortable in the car and trusting of its setup equates to me being faster.

Jim-SR wrote:Dampers have to be standard fitment inserts, so that means Koni's all day long unless you've got proper money to get custom stuff made.


kyb's these days in mk1's :)

Jim-SR wrote:Cutting stock springs will never be anywhere near ideal, so if you're buying lowering springs in the first place and then cutting them it would barely even cost more to get custom stuff to begin with if you can get them for £200 a set!!


If you can get them in time from the batch that gets made. Or the cost gets higher. And much higher than £200 is knocking on the door of race fees for a weekend. Given the choice between special secret springs and going racing I know which one most people choose.
elbon50
Posts: 3598
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:29 am
Location: Stafford

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by elbon50 »

Jim-SR wrote:Budget is always the reason

My personal opinions aren't going to suddenly change the mindset of those that are intent on saving themselves money


As the member who started this thread i should just like to say that my motivation is not simply concerned with saving money

Am quite stunned that my question has created so much heat

Peter
jnoiles
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:06 pm

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by jnoiles »

elbon50 wrote:
Jim-SR wrote:Am quite stunned that my question has created so much heat

Peter


I'm not. Cut springs is always a contentious issue. :)
Jim-SR
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Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by Jim-SR »

Are they all running KYB's because they perform better or because they are cheaper though? :lol:

I'm not going to go there on the rest of the discussion, I'll just agree to disagree lol. It's one of those debates that will never end.
1000 PR
Posts: 98
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:22 pm
Location: Southampton West

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by 1000 PR »

How about moving the spring carrier further up the shock with a little cutting and welding? :lol:

I bought a Celica XT years ago which had the Grayston clamp on spring height adjusters fitted and these seemed to work ok!
kaiowas
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Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by kaiowas »

Jim-SR wrote:Are they all running KYB's because they perform better or because they are cheaper though? :lol:

I'm not going to go there on the rest of the discussion, I'll just agree to disagree lol. It's one of those debates that will never end.


I believe adjustables aren't allowed, which rules out Konis.
elbon50
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Location: Stafford

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by elbon50 »

Bump
cartledge_uk
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Location: Newbury

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by cartledge_uk »

elbon50 wrote:Bump


Why bump?
elbon50
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Location: Stafford

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by elbon50 »

Bumping the old thread up so Alex could read it

Peter
cartledge_uk
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Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by cartledge_uk »

elbon50 wrote:Bumping the old thread up so Alex could read it

Peter


The best way would be to link the post, rather than reserect old threads as there are almost hundreds of 'suspension threads' if everyone bumped then the forum would be full of old posts
elbon50
Posts: 3598
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:29 am
Location: Stafford

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by elbon50 »

cartledge_uk wrote:
elbon50 wrote:Bumping the old thread up so Alex could read it

Peter


The best way would be to link the post, rather than reserect old threads as there are almost hundreds of 'suspension threads' if everyone bumped then the forum would be full of old posts


Yes. No problem. Won't bump again

Peter
cartledge_uk
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Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by cartledge_uk »

elbon50 wrote:

Yes. No problem. Won't bump again

Peter


Sorry you got me wrong, i'm not saying don't bump where appropriate (ie if no-ones responded to a problem etc its fine to bump) but in some instances its easier to link directly
elbon50
Posts: 3598
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:29 am
Location: Stafford

Re: Front Suspension Modifications ?

Post by elbon50 »

cartledge_uk wrote:
elbon50 wrote:

Yes. No problem. Won't bump again

Peter


Sorry you got me wrong, i'm not saying don't bump where appropriate (ie if no-ones responded to a problem etc its fine to bump) but in some instances its easier to link directly


Will try to get it right in future :)

Peter
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