Thanks guys for all your help
Rechecked the cam timing today and all was still ok 110 and 104 deg
Did a leak down test also and again no problems also re checked the tappet clearance again all ok
I have now put back the rev 3 cams and it now idles fine, will road test and data log tomorrow after I recheck the ignition timing
Circuit Motors at Castlecombe were trying to map it, he did it ok when I had my TD06 and got me nearly 400 fwhp, but this time he changed some of the ignition and fuel maps but struggled as the engine was prone to over boost, the 284 fwhp was at 20psi just before engine cut. The strange thing is on the road it boosted fine no creep ?
[Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
Moderators: IMOC Moderators, IMOC Committee Members
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
Sounds to me like you need a stronger spring in your wastegate... If it's to week the boost from your bigger turbo will just be pushing the valve open and all the boost being generated will be escaping out of your screamer instead of into your engine... Either that or a bigger wastegate.. 38mm to small for a gt35r IMHO...especially with the small exhaust housing your running.. Will be generating alot of boost early and just bleeding it off again through the screamer cuz it can't flow the required volume... Just my 2p's.....
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
Dangerous wrote:Sounds to me like you need a stronger spring in your wastegate... If it's to week the boost from your bigger turbo will just be pushing the valve open and all the boost being generated will be escaping out of your screamer instead of into your engine... Either that or a bigger wastegate.. 38mm to small for a gt35r IMHO...especially with the small exhaust housing your running.. Will be generating alot of boost early and just bleeding it off again through the screamer cuz it can't flow the required volume... Just my 2p's.....
Thanks
Yes but I'm not losing boost its over boosting which must mean the wastegate is struggling to vent enough gas to control the boost via the apexi ebc solenoid. I think either larger pipe work, its now 38mm and go larger to 44mm and maybe vent to atmo rather than back into the down pipe, if that fails then I will need a 44mm wastegate
George
-
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:41 pm
- Location: kidderminster
- Contact:
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
Well if it's idling fine on stock cam's there's either a problem with the way your dialling the cam's in or you need to change your mapper.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
george_m wrote:Dangerous wrote:Sounds to me like you need a stronger spring in your wastegate... If it's to week the boost from your bigger turbo will just be pushing the valve open and all the boost being generated will be escaping out of your screamer instead of into your engine... Either that or a bigger wastegate.. 38mm to small for a gt35r IMHO...especially with the small exhaust housing your running.. Will be generating alot of boost early and just bleeding it off again through the screamer cuz it can't flow the required volume... Just my 2p's.....
Thanks
Yes but I'm not losing boost its over boosting which must mean the wastegate is struggling to vent enough gas to control the boost via the apexi ebc solenoid. I think either larger pipe work, its now 38mm and go larger to 44mm and maybe vent to atmo rather than back into the down pipe, if that fails then I will need a 44mm wastegate
George
How is over boosting if your only running 20psi?.. if the spring in your Wastegate is too weak it wont hold boost either.... If the wastgate is no good your turbo could be spinning higher than 20psi at the manifold to make it where it's being measured at the inlet manifold...
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
greeny wrote:Chris wrote:Stick the stock cams back in. Then re map it. I never had any sucess with 272's at all. I adjusted them, re set them, re dialled them and no matter what I did, my car made no power. Well, made a good bit more than yours but on stock cams Dave got some right advance in there. Drove lovely off boost too.
I don't think the cams have much to do with his loss of power.
Did you ever degree them properly?
I know you and andy couldn't get them to work, but plenty of other people have
I have nothing but praise for them to be honest..worked for me.. although I had to make a few adjustments to make them work...things I needed to do is to run it in the 13's AFR's on light load, otherwise it would kangaroo about a bit ( 02 feedback turned off )... Fuel cut too ( off load ).. I raised to 4K.. so its fueling against the map under 4K.. otherwise, it would jerk a bit when fueling comes on.... mine does idle nicely at 1000 rpm.. no hunting, no stalling, clean burn.. > This due to running open loop on the TPS sensor ( rotated it more ) .. Power FC's rubbish as you can't adjust closed loop ( idle map )... Mine has HKS 272s 10.4mm/10.2mm .. and from 6K pulls like a steam train !
Cam dailing ... If they're genuine Rev 3 272s, you should have zero'd them out as a starting block.. .. and set them up at TDC again.... What I've found fitting a few HKS cams, they only need very minor adjustments.... If you've got overlap ... it can cause lumpy idling, excessive sooting. The lack of power also suggests one of the cams is out a tooth or 2 ?!! I guess refitting the stockers has resolved that issue though.
|| S256SX Airwerks Powered MR2 Turbo || V10 BMW M5 ||
Damage Limitation
Thanks again for you help and as I needed to get the car out on the track again I thought remove some of the variables. so the only changes now are the forged internals and the GT35r, downpipe and 4" HKS induction pipe
I have put the rev 3 cams and 540 injectors back in, reset the static timing and the injector settings.
I then fitted an AEM O2 wideband and connected it to FC Datalogit and did some 3rd gear road pulls with my old TD06 map. I made some ignition and fuel map changes and then did some 3rd 4th and brief 5 th gear pulls ( on a private road ) on 1.0 and 1.2 and 1.4 bar boost and logged this.
The map needed a few more changes but get this only a little boost creep no engine cut from over boosting 0.25 bar. and the car pulled well and idles so so. It also showed up the fuel leaning off on the 1.4 bar boost so will not use this setting
I have just dropped the Denso 800cc off for flow testing and if all is well these I can refit and adjust the map, or replace if any problems show up
Out on the track yesterday at Castlecombe my son drove for the first time in a race and eventually managed a 1m15 ( on last years rubber ) after a few teething problems on 1.2 bar boost.
AIT 43 C max knock below 40 water temp 75 C oil temp 85 C and just over 400 kpa ( 60psi ) oil pressure, so all in all engine and turbo all look fine mechanically which is always a worry after a full rebuild.
The next race is in about 4 weeks time and a track test day in 2 week so will hopefully refit and remap the the 800 injectors and see what sort of time's I get.
Next I think to get the HKS 272 264 cams refiitted I will need to open up the wastegate with some larger pipe work and maybe replace the 38 with a Tial 44mm. I will then need the whole lot remapping and the cams dialed in to get the best from it so will be looking for a good 3SGTE mapper
I have put the rev 3 cams and 540 injectors back in, reset the static timing and the injector settings.
I then fitted an AEM O2 wideband and connected it to FC Datalogit and did some 3rd gear road pulls with my old TD06 map. I made some ignition and fuel map changes and then did some 3rd 4th and brief 5 th gear pulls ( on a private road ) on 1.0 and 1.2 and 1.4 bar boost and logged this.
The map needed a few more changes but get this only a little boost creep no engine cut from over boosting 0.25 bar. and the car pulled well and idles so so. It also showed up the fuel leaning off on the 1.4 bar boost so will not use this setting
I have just dropped the Denso 800cc off for flow testing and if all is well these I can refit and adjust the map, or replace if any problems show up
Out on the track yesterday at Castlecombe my son drove for the first time in a race and eventually managed a 1m15 ( on last years rubber ) after a few teething problems on 1.2 bar boost.
AIT 43 C max knock below 40 water temp 75 C oil temp 85 C and just over 400 kpa ( 60psi ) oil pressure, so all in all engine and turbo all look fine mechanically which is always a worry after a full rebuild.
The next race is in about 4 weeks time and a track test day in 2 week so will hopefully refit and remap the the 800 injectors and see what sort of time's I get.
Next I think to get the HKS 272 264 cams refiitted I will need to open up the wastegate with some larger pipe work and maybe replace the 38 with a Tial 44mm. I will then need the whole lot remapping and the cams dialed in to get the best from it so will be looking for a good 3SGTE mapper
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
If your running a power FC, go to Greg @ Pro tuner. The amount of checks he does before it goes on the rollers is top notch. Compression check, pump wiring etc
Not like some who drive it onto the roller and maps. if there was a problem that mapper couldnt care unlike greg.
Not like some who drive it onto the roller and maps. if there was a problem that mapper couldnt care unlike greg.
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
Water temp of 75!!! You running a different stat?? Trd??
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
Gee Man wrote:Water temp of 75!!! You running a different stat?? Trd??
Yes TRD stat and racing alloy radiator
injector test
JJ wrote:greeny wrote:Chris wrote:Stick the stock cams back in. Then re map it. I never had any sucess with 272's at all. I adjusted them, re set them, re dialled them and no matter what I did, my car made no power. Well, made a good bit more than yours but on stock cams Dave got some right advance in there. Drove lovely off boost too.
I don't think the cams have much to do with his loss of power.
Did you ever degree them properly?
I know you and andy couldn't get them to work, but plenty of other people have
I have nothing but praise for them to be honest..worked for me.. although I had to make a few adjustments to make them work...things I needed to do is to run it in the 13's AFR's on light load, otherwise it would kangaroo about a bit ( 02 feedback turned off )... Fuel cut too ( off load ).. I raised to 4K.. so its fueling against the map under 4K.. otherwise, it would jerk a bit when fueling comes on.... mine does idle nicely at 1000 rpm.. no hunting, no stalling, clean burn.. > This due to running open loop on the TPS sensor ( rotated it more ) .. Power FC's rubbish as you can't adjust closed loop ( idle map )... Mine has HKS 272s 10.4mm/10.2mm .. and from 6K pulls like a steam train !
Cam dailing ... If they're genuine Rev 3 272s, you should have zero'd them out as a starting block.. .. and set them up at TDC again.... What I've found fitting a few HKS cams, they only need very minor adjustments.... If you've got overlap ... it can cause lumpy idling, excessive sooting. The lack of power also suggests one of the cams is out a tooth or 2 ?!! I guess refitting the stockers has resolved that issue though.
I think you are dead right as the injectors came up fine in the flow and pattern test so the only real change left was the camshafts must be too far out as you say. When you say set them up to zero'd to TDC can you enlighten me on how to do that.
Also you say are they genuine HKS rev 3 what's the difference ? These are marked RT064
and RT065
are these not the correct ones ?
thanks
George
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
TOTB 2010 Rwd top speed, 1/4 and shootout winner.
10.7@142 on R888 street tyres, 10.3@134mph on slicks,
9's on slicks to come, with a clean full throttle pass! Goal of 0-150mph in a 1/4 of a mile....
10.7@142 on R888 street tyres, 10.3@134mph on slicks,
9's on slicks to come, with a clean full throttle pass! Goal of 0-150mph in a 1/4 of a mile....
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
Thanks
yes I think I will get in touch with Ryan and see if he can map it for me
yes I think I will get in touch with Ryan and see if he can map it for me
Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] GT35R dyno dillema updated with 4th gear Datalogit 8 May
george_m wrote:Gee Man wrote:Water temp of 75!!! You running a different stat?? Trd??
Yes TRD stat and racing alloy radiator
Alloy radiator from mate??
Ryan will work some magic mate he has mapped all my engines
4th gear pull datalogit
This is the final 4th gear pull I did today after refitting the Denso 880cc after having them flow and pattern tested ( bought them as Sard 800 cc ) and making some changes to the injector settings and the ignition map
Really pleased now I can run 1.45 bar in the next race at Castlecombe in a couple weeks time. As you can see very little boost creep and I logged both basic and advanced knock to see if there was much difference in values ( not a lot ) all done on Shell v max averaging around 11:1 wideband
Car felt great
javascript:emoticon(':lol:')
I shall run this for now and if all goes well think about refitting the HKS cams and asking Ryan to degree and re map it for me
The alloy radiator is not a TRD as it looks its a Mishimoto copy I bought from the States works great and save a few kilos
Really pleased now I can run 1.45 bar in the next race at Castlecombe in a couple weeks time. As you can see very little boost creep and I logged both basic and advanced knock to see if there was much difference in values ( not a lot ) all done on Shell v max averaging around 11:1 wideband
Car felt great
javascript:emoticon(':lol:')
I shall run this for now and if all goes well think about refitting the HKS cams and asking Ryan to degree and re map it for me
The alloy radiator is not a TRD as it looks its a Mishimoto copy I bought from the States works great and save a few kilos