Legal advice - NEW DEVELOPMENTS - Further Update!

[dgibson2004]

Great reply Sam.

Short, polite and to the point.

Lets hope thats the end of it and you can carry on.

[Ian Geary]

there's a similar post to this in piston heads every now and then.

Whilst a variation on a theme, they're often pretty funny.

I recall there are 2 areas where a buyer has recourse against a private seller:

- if the advert was knowingly misleading or false, or the seller lies when asked a question. E.g. it states "no accidents" but the seller know's its been in one, or full dealer service history, when they know it hasn't been. the trick here would be proving "knowingly"

- if the car is dangerous, or unroadworthy.


Neither seem to fit your circumstance. Whilst the exhaust did appear to be illegal, the MOT was valid at the time, so you didn't knowingly sell an illegal car or be reasonably expected to know this was the case (IMO)

My MR2 brakes would suffer with lack of use, and handbrake cables were an achilles heel too before I replaced them.

I can just image an MOT garage rubbing their hands and replacing everything they could at MOT time. But instead of trotting out the usual nonsense, they have the perfect excuse to blame the previous owner, which your buyer has swallowed. Win win for them

Your buyer seems to be trusting his friendly MOT station for impartial advise, when they've probably taken £300+ off him for brake parts and god knows how much for an oe cat and exhaust.


finally - what year / aspiration is your car? the mid 1995 switch for JDM turbos moving to a non -cat test confused some of my mot testers.

There's a chance your buyer's MOT tester has fallen into this trap, but it's also likely if your car isn't turbo, or is a turbo post 1995 then it does indeed need the with-cat test.

Ian

[sam1176uk]

Ok, an update - for the record it was a mk3, year 2000.

Had another letter this morning, 1st class recorded:

"Further to my letter of 22nd February and your reply in email; I would be grateful if you will confirm whether, or not, you are prepared to negotiate a reaasonable share of the cost to me of making the car roadworthy.
I will accept any means to achieve a satisfactory solution. I am happy to discuss any alternative you may suggest to avoid asking a court to arbitrate."

Thoughts???

Is anyone in the legal profession here and can definitively advise as this guy seems to know what he's talking about and seems pretty confident?


Thanks again.

[Marf]

Ignore it.

If you're concerned drop into your local Citizens Advice Bureau. They'll confirm what we've been saying.

[sam1176uk]

Think i will ignore this one, though i'm tempted to say any further contact would be reported as harassment.

[dazzz]

He's just trying it on mate.

Now he's got a reply, he knows you've actually considerd his original letter and are obviously concerned.

If you ingnore this one, you will get more, then when you reply at a later dtae he'll think it's beacuse of his numerous recorded mails and will think he's getting somewhere.

Nip it in the bud now and save yourself a lot of time.

Send him a letter / email simply saying..

FXXK OFF YOU STUPID XXXX.

[sam1176uk]

LOL

[Marf]

He's just trying it on mate.

Now he's got a reply, he knows you've actually considerd his original letter and are obviously concerned.

If you ingnore this one, you will get more, then when you reply at a later dtae he'll think it's beacuse of his numerous recorded mails and will think he's getting somewhere.

Nip it in the bud now and save yourself a lot of time.

Send him a letter / email simply saying..

FXXK OFF YOU STUPID XXXX.

Continued contact just reaffirms he has a live fish on the end of his hook.

As tempting as it'd be to tell him to foxtrot oscar, don't give him the satisfaction of knowing he is still getting to you!

[mr2turbo99]

Move house and block his number. End of.

[ancient mariner]

hiya sam,
best course of action imo,
send the guy an email or letter,telling him that you have said all you are prepared to say on the matter.and that any further correspondance
will either be returned,in an unstamped envelope or put in the bin. paul.

[dgibson2004]

Hi Sam

I would either ignore his letter or if its worrying you either go and see citizen advice or it might cost you a little (not too much though, I know some soliciters even do the first visit for free) beat him to the punch and go see a soliciter then see what he does.

Personally I would say sold as seen is sold as seen with no come back, also adding to the fact that he drove the car 300 odd miles with no problems to me tells me the car was fine (I am sure it wasnt he would have noticed when driving it back, and I am sure he didnt just buy the car drive it straight home and stored it he has bound to have driven it for a while).

I wouldif bothering you take all the details and letters and go see citizens advice, they will tell you one way or another where you/he stands.

[nikaiyo]

Tell him to do one...

I am in a very similar situation with my mum, she sold her old KA a few months back.

Here is my response

Dear Mr So and So

Further to your letter/ emails dated.

Under no circumstances will I consider compensation of any description. Further to this I request that you cease & desist from all communication on this issue unless and until you serve court documents.
I will vigorously defend my position in court if this becomes necessary.

Please be aware that you were given ample opportunity prior to completing the sale to inspect and test drive the vehicle to ensure that it was as described and in a condition satisfactory to you. You owned the car for several months and covered several hundred miles prior to making me aware of any faults, this suggest to me that the car was indisputably in good condition when purchased and that any faults arose after you had taken ownership.
I would like to remind you that the Sale of Goods Act does not cover private sales, it places the onus on the buyer to ensure he is happy with the goods prior to purchase.

Let me reiterate I am not liable for any issues that have arisen since you purchased this car and will not pay you any compensation. DO NOT contact me again unless it is to serve court papers, any further contact will be considered harassment and reported to the relevant authorities.

One thing to note if he does try to take you to court, you can choose to have the case heard in your local court so a 300 mile trip for him

[Mike 'MR2' McHugh]

Just tell him what you said before. How much cost is he talking about ? If anything he's thinking about a small claims court.

My friend sold/px'd his Audi TT for a scooby from a dealership.

The TT was well looked after. He didnt have it long and quickly got bored of it. After six months of ownership it was px'd and a deal was done at a scooby dealership. He believed at the time the TT has no problems what so ever. The vehicle was inspected by the dealership prior to the deal being done.

Almost a month later he was informed that a detailed inspection had been carried out and the TT had a twisted chasis. Inspection reports etc existed. He ended up in court fighting his case, which he won id like to add. The main thing was that the car was sold/px'd and was believed by the owner that the car was road worthy. I can understand why they got this case to court because at the time the car was worth approx 10k.

In your case even if he does get you to court, due to the time lapse he doesnt have a leg to stand on. Whose to say that he didnt de-cat the vehicle after purchase ? Whos to say that he hasnt abused the vehicle or taken parts off and added faulty ones ?

Its in your favour all the way.

You say you have lost/thrown away the receipt, that doesnt matter too much as he would be required in the event of a case to prove his ownership. His receipt would be his proof of the sale, thus shooting himself in the foot. 'SOLD AS SEEN' evidence produced !

It would be great if we could all buy things second hand cheaply and then expect to take them back to the seller when they go wrong. The guy must be in dream land for a couple of hundred quid suggesting this !

[Steve-O 2007]

if you could legally do this then everyone would be doing it and everyone would be too scared to sell a used car fearing they will end up in court.

Its like saying "I bought this car off you 5 months ago and on the way home from work hit some oil and went through a fence. the bodyshop went ahead and repaired it at a cost of £800, I would be most greatfull if you could pay towards this as I beleive the tyres you fitted werent good enough and its your fault"


Seriously just ignore it, hes just trying to scare you by using the words "court". Its not your problem anymore. I spent £4.5k buying my MR2 thinking it was mint and ended up sorting all sorts of running problems on it before getting it to run perfect. I havent asked for anything back towards it....

[Tiamat]

Think i will ignore this one, though i'm tempted to say any further contact would be reported as harassment.

Just ignore it, he does not have a leg to stand on, it is a private sale and therefore it is up to him to ascertain the quality of the goods. Also as he has had it for several months, he has accepted it in law as he has had sufficient time to review it properly.

If he has modified the vehicle, or someone has done so on his instructions (such as removal of the cat) then clearly works have been carried out to the vehicle over which you had no control, therefore any problems with the vehicle cannot be demonstrated as being present upon pick up.

He is trying to scare you with the use of the word Court, and though he could bring the case to Court I cannot see that any judge would actually side with him given the nature of what has gone on.

As for confidence, if he was really confident then he would not be asking in such a manner, he would more likely be coming at you from the angle of "you owe me £XXX and this is the reason why and this is the legal reason why"

[Tiamat]

Seriously, you have nothing to worry about. If he contacts you tell him you consider it harrassment and will report it.

He'll probably get arsey and say he'll see you in court, which he wont. They wouldnt even let him lodge the case.

They would let him lodge the case, it is not down to the counter staff to judge whether a case should or should not be issued against someone and judges do not review cases before issue.

[sam1176uk]

Tell him to do one...

I am in a very similar situation with my mum, she sold her old KA a few months back.

Here is my response

Dear Mr So and So

Further to your letter/ emails dated.

Under no circumstances will I consider compensation of any description. Further to this I request that you cease & desist from all communication on this issue unless and until you serve court documents.
I will vigorously defend my position in court if this becomes necessary.

Please be aware that you were given ample opportunity prior to completing the sale to inspect and test drive the vehicle to ensure that it was as described and in a condition satisfactory to you. You owned the car for several months and covered several hundred miles prior to making me aware of any faults, this suggest to me that the car was indisputably in good condition when purchased and that any faults arose after you had taken ownership.
I would like to remind you that the Sale of Goods Act does not cover private sales, it places the onus on the buyer to ensure he is happy with the goods prior to purchase.

Let me reiterate I am not liable for any issues that have arisen since you purchased this car and will not pay you any compensation. DO NOT contact me again unless it is to serve court papers, any further contact will be considered harassment and reported to the relevant authorities.

One thing to note if he does try to take you to court, you can choose to have the case heard in your local court so a 300 mile trip for him

Good replay mate, i'm tempted to do something similar but it'll probably just encourage more contact and i cant be bothered with that.
SOunds to me like he's driven it 325 miles (by the way he phoned me when he got home to say how pleased he was with it!!) and then parked it up in the freezing weather, the brakes have probably seized on through lack of use and hence the MOT fail, just a guess but seems most likely.

[Marf]

Yup just ignore it and get on with your life.

[tonigmr2]

I have been in this situation and took legal advice. I was told in no uncertain terms as a private seller there IS NO COMEBACK. I was told that if he had driven 2 miles down the road and the engine fell out THERE IS STILL NO COMEBACK.

I guess he can pay and take you to the small claims court. But still, all you need to say is you are not a mechanic and it was fine as far as you were concerned and it was sold as seen, as any private sale. The guy will be wasting his money.

[sam1176uk]

Thanks again for all the input - much appreciated.