Legal advice - NEW DEVELOPMENTS - Further Update!

[sam1176uk]

Thanks for all the input guys, this is why i still view imoc every day even though i am currently MR2-less due to the upcoming house move and wedding!
I had googled it and found something about being able to sue if a car was found to be unroadworthy?
Like you say he may have been driving with the handbrake on or something, may have been due to storage over the cold period, but the brakes were excellent and in fact i was raving about them to the guy when he bought it!

[Marf]

Seriously, you have nothing to worry about. If he contacts you tell him you consider it harrassment and will report it.

He'll probably get arsey and say he'll see you in court, which he wont. They wouldnt even let him lodge the case.

[foxy-stoat]

The point is that is was roadworthly on the date of sale. No court in the land will award him damages if he drove it 300+ miles home and parked it up for 2+ months and now moaning about stuff.

In the words of Bob Marley....." dont worry.....about a thing..." blah blah blah.

[Marf]

No court in the land would hear the case, let alone award damages!

[sam1176uk]

Lol

[Charged]

Just dont let it worry you at all.

He had ample opportunity to spot any issues for himself.. he could have even had a professional inspection done...

People like this need their heads read.

[tonigmr2]

Just a chancer, what they all said. Sold as seen by a private seller is just that, you're not an expert, you can't be expected to know if there are any issues. It's up to the buyer to check.

[Ryan S]

as we say in Dundee, tell him to ram it!!!

total chancer, i think i'd honestly laughed at his snooty letter, and if he wants money he'd best get to the back of the queue

[Steve-O 2007]

dont you dare give him any money, if you do we will all have to come and b1tch slap you lol


So he comes, looks at the car, most likely takes it on a test drive, hands the money over and then drives off 300+ miles with no problems then "claims" to have stored it and now wants money off you

Fair enough if the car broke down 5 minutes down the road after buying it, but you sold it a very long time ago.

Most small time traders would just laugh at him as well

I would just send him a letter back (2nd class) saying "Sorry but this was sold as seen, you bought the car 3 months ago after checking it over, test driving it and driving the car home 300+ miles with no problems. Any more letters from you will just be ignored as you have no legal rights (link him to that site if you want). Hope you have as much fun in the car as I did. Thanks"......... Put 2p in with it just to add some humour

[dgibson2004]

Ask him to produce the old brake parts so you can check them.

I like the 2p idea too You could use 2 1p coins and make it in to a smiley face by sticking them to some card and drawing a big smile.

You could also ask him to send some pics of the new exhaust and brakes as your interested in seeing what the car now looks like.

Oh one last thing if his name is 'Fat Tony' from the Mob I would agree with everything he says other wise dont worry.

[JDM-MAT]

es this mean I can claim all my costs back from the trader who sold me mine"? Said it was good condition everything in working order lol even Tho power steering was xxxxx and so was the brakes. Pmsl

[daz364]

hi there sam,
Just to let you know, as a lot of people have said on here the guy has no legal leg to stand on, I purchased a vauxhall corsa sport off of Ebay I was told there was nothing wrong with it. It was pouring it down with rain Im talking monsoon its like ppl say never buy a car in the rain lol. I just handed over 500 quid got a receipt and drove off on the way home the heaters didn't work stopped to put petrol in and it overheated in the garage and didn't have any water in. EGR valve was gone and the when I got on the motor way found it to be pulling all over the place. Before anybody read this and says dick head yes i should of drove it before handing cash over but it proves don't buy off of ebay!

I contacted citizens advice bureau to see where I stood and they told me as it was a private sale I have no rights to ask for my money back or ask for money for the repairs.I even had a strongly worded conversation on the phone with the ex owner I got told to politely do one ! So as far as Im aware you shouldn't have to pay a penny towards the cost of repairing the car. My advice would be contact citizens advice that way you can get a final answer instead of ppl commenting. There is no point in been an ar$e with the guy I would write a letter of reply fighting fire with fire, saying you have got legal advice from a solicitor and citizen advice.

Just wondering what the car was rev 1,2,3 has the mot tester done him over on the mot on the cat thing might be worth sending him the info on the CAT and MOT stuff as for brakes I think you can only say its a wear and tear Item that don't last forever and as said not warranty was offered at time of sale

Hope this helps Daz

[Harold]

I honestly wouldn't even bother replying, he'll realise you're not playing ball and go away.

[mark239]

Tail light warranty.

Tell him to GTFO.

[vishpish]

people like that annoy me! he wont get anything off the mot garage as they can simply say what happens after the mot test is outwith their control (ie decat fitment)

its like buying anything used - you cant go crying to your mamma when it goes wrong. ive read cases in my legal training where even traders werent held to be liable for example a local glasgow garage sold a used renault for 3 or 4k and in 2 weeks the gearbox had gone; the garage wasnt held liable as the court found it reasonable that a used car could feasibly have something big wrong with it.

[DavidM]

He'll have phoned CA and asked what his rights are. They will have told him he has no legal way of enforcing any compensation. However, they may have suggested writing to ask if you are prepared to refund any money or cover his costs. Basically, he has nothing to lose by asking, there is always the possibility that you may just help out on his costs.
I would write back and say that your sorry he has had problems but in all honesty its not your problem especially after the time that has elapsed since he purchased it. Tell him that you hope he gets the problems sorted out and then goes on to enjoy many years of problem free motoring in the car.
I always find it is better to respond politely than ignore.

[RST]

I remember "Watchdog" on BBC did a riff about this years ago. They were very specific to make sure you always provide a receipt stating "sold as seen", date and signature otherwise you are leaving yourself open. Maybe the rules changed since.

You are protected in private sales in a similar way as you would be from a retailer. But if you described the car, and they inspected it then that's about as far as it goes. I copied the section from another car forum I'm on regarding purchases.

I'm not sure if I would do anything apart from ignore it. I don't think the guy has any comeback from what you have said and any sale is caveat emptor!

Buying Goods - your rights

When you buy goods from a trader, such as a shop, market stall, garage, etc, you enter into a contract, which is controlled by many laws including, the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended by the Sale & Supply of Goods Act 1994 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002). The law gives you certain implied, or automatic, statutory rights, under this contract.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) says that goods should be as follows:

* Of satisfactory quality.

This means the goods must meet the standards that any reasonable person would expect, taking into account the description, the price and all other relevant information. In some circumstances, the retailer may be liable for any statement made by the manufacturer about the goods.

Satisfactory quality includes the appearance and finish of the goods, their safety and durability and whether they are free from defects (including minor faults)

* Fit for the purpose

That goods of this type are generally sold. They must also be fit for any specific or particular purpose made known to the seller at the time of the agreement.

* As described - goods should correspond with any description applied to them.

When are you not entitled to anything?

* If you were told of any faults before you bought the goods.
* If the fault was obvious and it would have been reasonable to have noticed it on examination before buying.
* If you caused any damage yourself.
* If you made a mistake, e.g. you don't like the colour, it is the wrong size etc.
* If you have changed your mind about the goods, or seen them cheaper elsewhere.

The situation may be different and you may have additional rights where contracts involve:

* credit;
* distance selling i.e. not involving face to face contact, for example internet sales, catalogue, telephone sales etc.;
* an unsolicited phone call or visit to your home.

What are you entitled to ask for?

If the goods are faulty at the time of sale, you are legally entitled to request one of the following remedies:

1) A full refund.

This remedy is available when the goods have not been 'accepted';. Under the Sale of Goods Act, acceptance can take place in three ways:

* By telling the retailer that you have accepted them.
* By acting in a way with the goods which is inconsistent with the seller's ownership. E.g. if you have altered the goods in any way or customised them then you would be deemed to have accepted them.
* By keeping them for longer than a reasonable time without telling the seller that you have rejected them. There is no time specified in the Act and it may vary according to the type of goods. Ultimately, it may be for the judge to decide whether an unreasonable time has passed and whether goods have been accepted. For this reason you must contact the supplier, preferably in writing, as soon as the fault appears. To delay may mean you lose a right to a refund

If acceptance has taken place, then only the following remedies are available:

2) Compensation (damages)

The amount of compensation may be based on the cost of repair, or if that is not possible, compensation may be based on the purchase price with an allowance for usage.

3) Repair or replacement

The trader can refuse to agree to either of these remedies if it is disproportionate in comparison to the other remedies. For example, if you ask a trader to replace a washing machine then he would be entitled to turn down your request and offer a repair instead.

However, the repair or replacement must be carried out within a reasonable time and without causing significant inconvenience to the consumer. If this does not happen or the repair or replacement is not possible, then the consumer can rescind the contract (claim a refund) or request a reduction in purchase price.

Please note: The remedies of repair/replacement and the subsequent rescission or reduction in purchase price are not applicable to Hire Purchase contracts and other laws apply. Please contact your local Trading Standards Service for further advice.

4) Rescission or reduction in price

These financial remedies can only be achieved by a failure of the repair / replacement option once acceptance has taken place. If the trader agrees to rescission, the amount paid may be reduced to take account of usage.

Once you have chosen a remedy and the trader has agreed, you must give the trader a reasonable time to effect the chosen remedy before switching to another one. Ultimately, if a remedy cannot be agreed upon, then the courts have the power to choose any of the remedies.

Proving the fault

If you have not accepted the goods and are rejecting and claiming a full refund or damages, it is YOU, the consumer, who needs to prove that there has been a breach of contract in that the goods are not of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described at the time of purchase.

* If you are claiming the remedies of repair or replacement within the first six months after purchase, it is for THE TRADER to prove that the goods conformed to the contract at the time of sale.
* If you are claiming repair or replacement more than six months after purchase, the burden of proof is back to YOU, the consumer.
* If it becomes necessary to obtain an expert opinion to support your claim, there are procedures to follow before you employ anyone in this capacity. County Court rules say that where an expert is necessary, it should be a single, jointly approved expert, and the expert's duty is to the court. You need to agree your choice of expert with the other party, and allow them to put their comments to the expert. Failure to follow this procedure may mean that a judge may not allow your expert to be heard should the matter eventually reach County Court. For further clarification, please seek advice from your local Trading Standards Service.

Who can you claim against for faulty goods?

Your claim could be against:

* the retailer under the Sale of Goods Act;
* the manufacturer (under the terms of a guarantee if you have one);
* a credit company if financed by credit;
* the credit card company.

Guarantees

If the manufacturer of the goods provides a free guarantee with the goods, this creates a contractual obligation by the guarantor. If the manufacturer fails to honour the guarantee, you could sue the manufacturer for the promises he makes. A guarantee is extra to your rights under the Sale of Goods Act. In some circumstances, you may have a claim under the guarantee, but find that a claim under the Sale of Goods Act would be difficult to prove, or vice versa. You may also in some circumstances have a claim against both, and therefore have a choice of who to claim against. If you are unsure seek advice from your local Trading Standards Service.

A trader or manufacturer is under no obligation to provide a guarantee, and if they do, they can specify any time span, for example six months, twelve months or three years. They can also specify what is to be covered by the guarantee, and exclude certain parts, or wear and tear. They cannot, however, take away any rights you would have under the Sale of Goods Act

Returns policies

Some retailers make promises out of goodwill that they will issue refunds for unused goods within a time period, for whatever reason. This creates additional useful rights for consumers.

Offences

If the seller is in business (rather than a private seller), he may have committed a criminal offence if he:

* sells goods which are unsafe;
* has given a false description to the goods i.e. a car sold with incorrect mileage (clocked car);
* gives a false description to the services he is providing e.g. falsely claiming to be a member of a trade association;
* advertises a misleading price;
* displays a sign which states "No Refunds".

If you feel that any of the above could apply, you should report the matter to your local Trading Standards Service before you return to the trader.

If you have been injured as a result of any goods, you should seek immediate advice from a solicitor.

Some problem areas when buying goods

Private sales

When you buy goods from a private individual, you don't have the same rights as when buying from a trader. The legal principle of caveat emptor, or 'buyer beware', operates. You have no rights to expect that goods be of satisfactory quality or fit for their purpose, but there is a requirement that they should be 'as described'. You should check goods thoroughly before you buy them.

Second-hand goods

The Sale of Goods Act applies to second-hand goods. When considering whether goods are of satisfactory quality one must take into account the lower expectations of second hand goods. For example, it wouldn't be reasonable to expect a ten-year-old, high mileage car to be completely free from fault, or to perform in the same way as a brand new vehicle, or to last as long. Second hand goods will have part-worn parts which will not be as durable as a new model.__________________
JZS147: HKS T51R 6 speed manual Single Turbo Toyota Aristo in black
JZS161: BPU TT Toyota Aristo in white
"If you go through life with your head in the sand.. all people will see is an ar$e"- Someone Wise

...this is from a couple of years ago though so not sure if it's changed!

[Marf]

Sale of Goods act does not apply to private sales.

[sam1176uk]

Thanks for all the input guys, I have replied in a short and sweet email saying
"the car was sold as seen and in good faith, I am not a trader and no warranty was given or implied.
It is the buyers’ responsibility to check the car first; you were more than welcome to bring a qualified mechanic (which i am not) for a professional inspection if you chose to do so.

If the MOT centre admitted to removing the exhaust and replacing it with a cat then I suggest you take this matter up with them, like I said I wasn’t the owner of the car at that time."



Cheers

[Charged]

Thanks for all the input guys, I have replied in a short and sweet email saying
"the car was sold as seen and in good faith, I am not a trader and no warranty was given or implied.
It is the buyers’ responsibility to check the car first; you were more than welcome to bring a qualified mechanic (which i am not) for a professional inspection if you chose to do so.

If the MOT centre admitted to removing the exhaust and replacing it with a cat then I suggest you take this matter up with them, like I said I wasn’t the owner of the car at that time."



Cheers

Report back any replies but that is a well worded reply which shows you are not going to be taken for a mug.