Rally Car

Discussion and technical advice for 84-89 AW10 & AW11 MR2. 3A-LU, 4A-GE, 4A-GZE.

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PW@Woodsport
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Re: Rally Car

Post by PW@Woodsport »

Pin 15 on the N1 connector is correct for the tacho, i suspect the reason it isn't working is because the Mk1 tacho expects an ignitor based signal and the Omex is outputting an ECU based signal.

We have this problem on 1mz, 2zz and 2gr Mk1 swaps (anything that uses an ECU tacho signal).

We get around it by bridging the ballast resistor on the tacho board. The Omex may well have an option to change the signal type though, but if it doesn't then the above will work.
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aw11rally
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Re: Rally Car

Post by aw11rally »

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Ready to go.
MartG
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Re: Rally Car

Post by MartG »

Looking good - hope you get the tacho sorted :thumleft:
aw11rally
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Graph!

Post by aw11rally »

Image

Plot of 2000-8000rpm in 3rd, x-axis is speed (mph)

174bhp at the wheels at 8000rpm and still rising. Rev limiter set at 8500 (shift light at 7750), engine will prob take 9000 quite easily.

Lower graph is for the old engine.
MartG
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Re: Rally Car

Post by MartG »

Looks like you've got an extra 40ish bhp to play with then :thumleft:

( not to mention the shedload of extra torque )
aw11rally
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Re: Rally Car

Post by aw11rally »

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h104/ ... d2700c.mp4

Video of final power run after mapping. Watch for the box being shaken off the shelf on the 7-8k run.
vashy
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Re: Rally Car

Post by vashy »

174 at the wheels! wow, whoever built/mapped that engine did a good job, looking at the torque curve, close to peak torque from fairly low rpm, not what I would expect from a highly tuned NA 4AGE! :mrgreen:

yeah I clocked the random yellow box trying to escape. oh yes the noise!
. . 6 . 7 . 8
5 . . . . i . . 9
aw11rally
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Re: Rally Car

Post by aw11rally »

The engine was built by Dave Brooks of www.davebrooks-engines.co.uk Dave has been building race and rally engines for years.

The guy who had the engine built originally (Ian Kempson) gave a build brief for torque and tractability rather than out right power. It looks like Dave gave him exactly what he wanted, and we got a bargain.

For the record this engine is running a small port head with 40mm tapered Jenveys. The old engine was a big port with 45 webers. In this case it seems that bigger isn't always better.

As for mapping, our favourite boffin at AB Garage in Broughton, North Wales finished off the mapping today. The previous map was lacking a little mid range refinement, it was also running very rich at idle and startup but lean at low and mid range with WOT, high revs and high throttle opening was spot on although giving AFR of 14.7 as the kit car the engine came from had a cat. Our boffin at AB sorted out the idle first then spent an hour or so sorting mid range and adding some extra fuel pretty much everywhere. Looks like it worked!

Our previous estimate (quoted when buying the engine) was 193bhp at the flywheel. I hate guestimated flywheel figures but allowing for 15% transmission loss gives us a figure of 205bhp at the flywheel. Different rolling roads etc etc etc but still bloody impressive.
aw11rally
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Tacho

Post by aw11rally »

Tacho now working. Just fitting a mk2 rear ARB now, once sorted we'll be 99% ready just final tweeks and a spannercheck and thread lock session.

We'll be taking her out for a run tonight, over to Warrington and District Motor Club and to fine tune the lamp pod.
PW@Woodsport
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Re: Tacho

Post by PW@Woodsport »

aw11rally wrote:Tacho now working.


Back of the net :thumleft:
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tonigmr2
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Re: Rally Car

Post by tonigmr2 »

Really interesting what you say, I've always been told the small port engine head was better for torque etc. (have gone for one on my car). Damn good result!
cartledge_uk
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Re: Rally Car

Post by cartledge_uk »

tonigmr2 wrote:Really interesting what you say, I've always been told the small port engine head was better for torque etc. (have gone for one on my car). Damn good result!



For most n/a's, small port is better. But with forced induction there will be a point where the small ports become a restriction, what this is I don't know, but I'm guessing it will be high bhp figures
MartG
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Re: Rally Car

Post by MartG »

cogboy wrote:Make sure to come over again this year at the North West Stages and say hello, and we'll give you the tour of the new set-up.


Any idea what time you're due in scrutineering ?

( is the collective noun for a group of scrutineers a scrotum ? :lol: )
cartledge_uk
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Re: Rally Car

Post by cartledge_uk »

MartG wrote:
( is the collective noun for a group of scrutineers a scrotum ? :lol: )


GLOL!!!!
JMR_AW11
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Re: Rally Car

Post by JMR_AW11 »

I'm slightly confused by the graph.

I don't see how you can get 200bhp at the flywheel (or 175bhp at the wheels) from a 1.6NA 4AGE that is only revving at 8000rpm?

Especially if it also delivers over 60bhp at the wheels (graph) at maybe 3000rpm?

Also the torque scaling seems way off.
Am I misreading the scaling or something somewhere?

Even if the graph is flywheel BHP then it's still very impressive :thumleft:
aw11rally
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Re: Rally Car

Post by aw11rally »

JMR_AW11 wrote:I'm slightly confused by the graph.

I don't see how you can get 200bhp at the flywheel (or 175bhp at the wheels) from a 1.6NA 4AGE that is only revving at 8000rpm?

Especially if it also delivers over 60bhp at the wheels (graph) at maybe 3000rpm?

Also the torque scaling seems way off.
Am I misreading the scaling or something somewhere?

Even if the graph is flywheel BHP then it's still very impressive :thumleft:


I agree the scale is a bit confusing being in MPH rather than RPM and the torque is a raw figure from the rollers i.e. the actual torque being put to the rollers from the rear wheels, this figure has not been corrected for gearing hence the huge numbers (obviously it doesn't make 400ft/lb at the fly!

BUT..from all accounts the rolling road at AB is pretty accurate, the boffins there have been building a hidden injection setup on a very nice Aston Martin DB5 for the last month, it was putting out 215bhp at the wheels on their rollers. The same engine was putting out 240bhp at the fly on an engine dyno (on carbs therefore about 10% less than now) when it was last rebuilt.

We were not expecting to get quite such good figures, we had decided that we would be very pleased if it got anywhere near 170 at the wheels.

We are very very happy!
aw11rally
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Re: Rally Car

Post by aw11rally »

MartG wrote:
cogboy wrote:Make sure to come over again this year at the North West Stages and say hello, and we'll give you the tour of the new set-up.


Any idea what time you're due in scrutineering ?

( is the collective noun for a group of scrutineers a scrotum ? :lol: )


Scrotum is close (geographically), they are generally called willys.

I think our slot is at about 4pm, we will be aiming to get to the service area at about lunch time (if it isn't flooded, its on the lower prom and the weather looks a bit nasty).

Look forward to seeing you there, hoperfull we'll have time for more of a chat this year.
tonigmr2
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Re: Rally Car

Post by tonigmr2 »

cartledge_uk wrote:
tonigmr2 wrote:Really interesting what you say, I've always been told the small port engine head was better for torque etc. (have gone for one on my car). Damn good result!



For most n/a's, small port is better. But with forced induction there will be a point where the small ports become a restriction, what this is I don't know, but I'm guessing it will be high bhp figures


Yes I heard that, I think torque over top end though, but we'll see. One day! :eye:
MartG
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Re: Rally Car

Post by MartG »

aw11rally wrote:I think our slot is at about 4pm, we will be aiming to get to the service area at about lunch time (if it isn't flooded, its on the lower prom and the weather looks a bit nasty).

Look forward to seeing you there, hoperfull we'll have time for more of a chat this year.


I'll probably try and catch up with you early in the afternoon at the service area - got to collect #1 son from school about 4 :roll:

Weather does look iffy - it's blowing a gale here now ( I'm about 4 miles inland from Blackpool sea front ) and I believe rain is also forecast for the next few days - typical UK rally weather then :lol:
aw11rally
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Dressed and ready to go.

Post by aw11rally »

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