Feed back on RTD ecu's, looks promising

[GT Rich]

Right peeps
Called throgh to RaceTech Developments and spoke to a guy called Derek. Nice Chap!
RTD supplied TTE Europe with ECU's to control the celica rally cars and still do, aparntley they do an ECU for the new Corolla T Sport which is currently being rallied in south africa and has won for the past 2 years using RTD's ECU!
They can do a full standalone ecu, which in effect can be plug and play. They can arrange for the pin lay outs to be in the correct place for rev 1,2 and 3+ mr2's.All we have to do is supply him with the layouts. All we would need to do then is unplug the old ECU and plug in the new one .
Derek can supply us with maps from group N and A spec cars to use as base maps and also with the software to map these. Group N uses TTE 950cc injectors and there is no limitations with boost. Should also be able to supply an electronic wast gate/solinoid to control boost in this price. These systems were originally designed to remove the airflow on the ST185 meter as TTE europe said it would not be practical to use, but has also been development to run on the ST205 when that was rallied as well.
In regards to the Rev 1+2's from my understanding so far all that would be needed is a map sensor installing.
This ECU won't control Aircon from what i have found out but alot of people on here ditch this anyway.

The ecu as it stands is £650 for 1 single unit but Derek said that he would reduce the price with a group buy!

So what do people think and what other information would you like me to find out??
Kind of stuck at the moment as to what else to as him?

Just thought i could give some other people a different option for ECU's.

Thanks

Rich :

[andygt]

sounds rather good
ive got a rev1tubby would the price hcnage much and after reading that does it mean i can rip out that stupid afm?
cheers mate

[MR2Mania]

Neither Group N or Group A maps will be safe for a road car because:
a) the rally cars ran race fuel
b) the rally cars ran air restrictors

Also, if they did the TTE Celicas, as he claims, how come he doesn't know the pin configurations?

BTW, I don't see why the AC would stop working if you fit a standalone.

[GT Rich]

Sorry for the long delay in replying.
Right Derek does know the pin layouts but he wants to know so he can arrange for the dash lights and guages to work and also for the different revisions plus the pin layout on the MR2 is slightly different i would of thought to the Celica. The ECU won't work the aircon because the Rally cars didn't have it fitted on the cars as its dead weight!
Derek said that he could supply us with the group N or A maps as a starting point for us so we had something to go off.
Appologies if my original post didn't make much sence, not really meant to be on the internet in work!

Hope this helps.

Please reply with your feed back so i can gather people views

Cheers
Rich

[GT Rich]

Hi Andy,
From what i can gather it means that all we have to do is fit a map sensor and rip out the afm and away we go! The price is the same no matter which revision but it just for 1 so the more we buy the more the price drops
Need to find out more on this ECU but i don't know what else to ask Derek!

If any one can think of some more questions to ask please let me know so i can find out!

Cheers

Rich

[stevecordiner]

My worry would be the mapping side - do they supply the software to allow you access to change the fuelling and timing maps?

If not, I personally would recommend a rev 2 or rev 3 owner to look to a power FC for cheaper and a rev 1 owner to look at the link ecu. Mapping is the critical part of an aftermarket ECU in my opinion. You can have the best EMS in the world, but if its not tuned right you wont get the results.

[GT Rich]

Hi Steve not spoke to you in ages hope your ok and things are great!

Yeah Derek said that he will supply us with the software to map it and we can change the every aspec. But i will comfirm it tho just to double check and post back! but saying that the ECU is designed for rallying so i would of thought that you should be able to change near enough anything

Thanks

Rich

[ENSMR2]

What about safety stuff like limp home mode or knock control to prevent damage if somethings not right.

Will it auto adjust to different conditions? ie colder/hotter intake temps etc. (just read that the new autronics ecu for the evo and scooby does this)

Any other features? ie Launch control etc.

[gtschris.com]

Hi Andy,
From what i can gather it means that all we have to do is fit a map sensor and rip out the afm and away we go! The price is the same no matter which revision but it just for 1 so the more we buy the more the price drops
Need to find out more on this ECU but i don't know what else to ask Derek!

If any one can think of some more questions to ask please let me know so i can find out!

Cheers

Rich

you'll need a MAT sensor and air intake temp sensor (as the factory one in the afm)

by the time you buy a map and mat and wiring etc, you may as well go for a hydra nemisi or apexi PFC which are plug and play.

[paul port]

Racetech ECU's

Guess what I stumbled into reading a German Forum...

Pictures of a Racetech ECU for a GT4 ST185, that looks like plug and play?
http://www.mymr2.dk/st185ecu/

Paul

[Owen @ Kent Car Craft]

I'm also interested as i've been in the market for some time,but as above do we get knock control/Anti-lag/Launch/safe options?
Is it a versatile ECU is what i'm asking?Few people have bought things like the Link-Plus ECU and HKS F-Con and Nemesis into the uk and no fecker can tune/wants to tune them.
????

[MR2Mania]

I'm also interested as i've been in the market for some time,but as above do we get knock control/Anti-lag/Launch/safe options?

Elmo, on a good standalone, you don't need knock control (no knock control system to date can protect from knock without actually robbing you of power, which is why MoTeC don't offer it as an option - it's actually got a hidden option for it in the M400/M600/M800 ECUs). Anti-lag is also not needed, unless you're gonna run a massive, laggy turbo, and even then, AL will kill the turbo in no time. Launch control is good, but ideally needs TC too. And with regards to safe options, any aftermarket ECU worth considering will have compensations to the main maps when sensors pick up any potential problems (eg, at the very least, you want an ECU to be able to compensate the maps according to Air Temp).

Few people have bought things like the Link-Plus ECU and HKS F-Con and Nemesis into the uk and no fecker can tune/wants to tune them.
????

That's because, if they don't have much experience with a certain ECU, it may cause them problems in the mapping (because they won't know the quirks of that given ECU) and it'll take them longer to map (hence cost you more in mapping costs than it would do for a known ECU, and this extra cost might make your otherwise cheaper ECU not so cheap once the mapping costs are taken into account).

[stevecordiner]

Few people have bought things like the Link-Plus ECU and HKS F-Con and Nemesis into the uk and no fecker can tune/wants to tune them.
????

Agree on HKS stuff, too restricted to keep official HKS dealers prices up its what put me off going that route.

You just have to travel. When I was shopping around to get my FC tuned with dataloggit, quite a few places said we'd give it a go. But I wanted to find one with experience so opted for Thor.

Thor also sell Link ECU's for the MR2 and have mapped a few of them, likewise they will map the nemesis as well.

I would like to see the software for the RTD ECU's, how easy to use it is will determine how long it takes to tune a car and by default the cost of tuning.

[Andy F]

I'm also interested as i've been in the market for some time,but as above do we get knock control/Anti-lag/Launch/safe options?

Elmo, on a good standalone, you don't need knock control (no knock control system to date can protect from knock without actually robbing you of power, which is why MoTeC don't offer it as an option - it's actually got a hidden option for it in the M400/M600/M800 ECUs). Anti-lag is also not needed, unless you're gonna run a massive, laggy turbo, and even then, AL will kill the turbo in no time. Launch control is good, but ideally needs TC too. And with regards to safe options, any aftermarket ECU worth considering will have compensations to the main maps when sensors pick up any potential problems (eg, at the very least, you want an ECU to be able to compensate the maps according to Air Temp).

Few people have bought things like the Link-Plus ECU and HKS F-Con and Nemesis into the uk and no fecker can tune/wants to tune them.
????

That's because, if they don't have much experience with a certain ECU, it may cause them problems in the mapping (because they won't know the quirks of that given ECU) and it'll take them longer to map (hence cost you more in mapping costs than it would do for a known ECU, and this extra cost might make your otherwise cheaper ECU not so cheap once the mapping costs are taken into account).

You can say that again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ive gone the long way round , and ended up were Dino told me to start from.....................MoTeC!

[stevecordiner]

Elmo, on a good standalone, you don't need knock control (no knock control system to date can protect from knock without actually robbing you of power, which is why MoTeC don't offer it as an option - it's actually got a hidden option for it in the M400/M600/M800 ECUs).

Whhaaatt? A motec wont compensate if your car is knocking???? Thats my fundamental quarm with a power FC, all it'll do is flash the CEL light to tell me that the car is knocking above the allowed threshold. I've found there is a huge difference in knockability of super unleaded, BP ultimate, Esso supreme and optimax. How about if your WI stopped working, the car wouldnt back off the timing or richen to compensate?

I agree, knock response robs a bit of power because I imagine its backing off the timing - but I'd of thought you could program in an accetable level of knock before it would react.

Sorry, just shocked!

[MR2Mania]

Whhaaatt? A motec wont compensate if your car is knocking???? Thats my fundamental quarm with a power FC, all it'll do is flash the CEL light to tell me that the car is knocking above the allowed threshold. I've found there is a huge difference in knockability of super unleaded, BP ultimate, Esso supreme and optimax. How about if your WI stopped working, the car wouldnt back off the timing or richen to compensate?

Steve, bottom line is, if it's well mapped to start with, it won't det. NO det control system is fool proof - why do you think Scoobies keep blowing?

Your point about WI is why most mappers won't map an engine to rely on WI. If this is the way you wanna go, then spend more time sorting a system out that detects if the WI system is operating OK - you stand MUCH more chance of detecting that than you would knock.

There was a great article a while back on Autospeed.com about knock detection, and they compared things like the J&S Safeguard that some Americans swear by to the manual way of detecting knock (ie an experienced tuner using det cans), and guess which one proved more effective!

[stevecordiner]

I agree, if its well mapped to start with then knock shouldnt be a concern. Hence why any good tuning place will normally ignore datalogs of knock and go with the good ole listening head phones.

My query is more, if say you have a motec tuned for optimax and then you put say some nasty texaco 95 RON in, would you just have to adopt the same approach as me. Dont boot it till you've run the tank very low and refilled with some decent fuel?

I thought scoobies blew due to the rather chocolaty nature of their pistons

[MR2Mania]

My query is more, if say you have a motec tuned for optimax and then you put say some nasty texaco 95 RON in, would you just have to adopt the same approach as me. Dont boot it till you've run the tank very low and refilled with some decent fuel?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'd do, but I'd probably still do that even with the stock ECU and knock control, to be honest.

The other thing to remember with the latest Super Unleadeds (Optimax included!) is that their octane level drops off dramatically after a week or 2 sitting in the tank, so for those that only use their cars occassionally, don't bother filling up the tank - just put in enough fuel to last you 1-2 weeks max.

The thing that makes an engine knock is too much ignition advance for the cylinder pressure and temperature. A good tuner will want to run as much advance as possible to get the power, but what they WON'T do is run it so close to the limit that det occurs if a simple variable changes. They'll find the best advance for power and then back off by 2-3 degrees. There actually comes a point during tuning when more advance doesn't make more power, so if this is the case, the tuner will back off advance to give some margin.

[MR2Mania]

I thought scoobies blew due to the rather chocolaty nature of their pistons

LOL. The failures that I've seen or heard about on Scoobies seem to mostly be throwing a rod (their rods are weak, because they can't be too thick due to the engine being a boxer, and the crank having to be shorter), or by detting themselves to hell. It seems that the imports don't like running on our UK fuel, so that points to bad knock control. Also, one of the most popular buys from Scooby boys is a Knock Link, so that they can monitor knock themselves.

Apparently, the STi Scoobies came with Subaru forged pistons as standard (although these won't be as good as some aftermarket ones).

[Al-sw20]

Few people have bought things like the Link-Plus ECU and HKS F-Con and Nemesis into the uk and no fecker can tune/wants to tune them.
????

If your tuner cant tune those ecus bar the HKS, then find a real tuner.