[Mk2] [Turbo] Spluttering in the morning then clears up? Any ideas?

[Bone]

Hi I've got a rev 3 turbo with an intermittent problem that happens in the mornings. Early in the morning my car splutters between 2000 and 3000 rpm but if I floor it the car pulls well. If I drive in that range with minimal throttle it is quite bad, you can feel the car jerk around. Its got new plugs,new distributor cap and rotor arm and the leads are 14 months old. Any ideas? Cheers peeps.

[Steve-O 2007]

well its quite damp / cold weather now so I would check all your ignition components for moisture. Pop the ignition leads off and see if they are damp

[Bone]

well its quite damp / cold weather now so I would check all your ignition components for moisture. Pop the ignition leads off and see if they are damp

Before I left for work this morning I pulled all the leads off the plugs and all the bores were dry. How does the choke system work?

[GMLMR2]

Dizzy cap, leads and plugs is the first area id look into.

Had this problem for ages , turned out to be ignition leads even though when I tested them they "appeared to be ok ", my car is coming up 20 years old and the leads were original factory Toyota leads lol “year of manufacture 1993 ” written on the sides of them lol I’m guessing they’ve had there day now , but every morning would be the same, started fine, then after about a couple seconds of idle the engine would give a mild miss fire, I used to wait 2 minutes before the engine was warm enough to iron out the misfire then go to work, the misfire would always be gone at full engine heat, it was annoying because I started thinking "great a compression problem" it wasn’t until my last mot that I noticed the HC emissions where way up something like 120 when really 40 to 50 is a good medium, but HC always means bad ignition components resulting in poor combustion, I know the plugs and dizzy where ok and coil because I replaced all those, so I replaced the leads with some magnecor leads in the end, the 10 year guarantee is a bonus and should see me out and I would of sold the car by then lol cus the gf wants marriage and babies long before then lol but normal leads break-up way to fast for the money you pay for them so went down the magnecor rout and problem solved.


Other areas to try,

MAF (could be dirty)

EGR Valve (faulty one will give you the same problems and especially at 2000 revs, when they open and close at the wrong time boost pressure is lost in the inlet system, had this problem on a turbo astra once, it was down to a Dirty EGR Valve and faulty EGR solenoid)

AIR TEMP SENSOR (located in the air box, I beleve it controls air to fuel ratio mix)

[Bone]

Dizzy cap, leads and plugs is the first area id look into.

Had this problem for ages , turned out to be ignition leads even though when I tested them they "appeared to be ok ", my car is coming up 20 years old and the leads were original factory Toyota leads lol “year of manufacture 1993 ” written on the sides of them lol I’m guessing they’ve had there day now , but every morning would be the same, started fine, then after about a couple seconds of idle the engine would give a mild miss fire, I used to wait 2 minutes before the engine was warm enough to iron out the misfire then go to work, the misfire would always be gone at full engine heat, it was annoying because I started thinking "great a compression problem" it wasn’t until my last mot that I noticed the HC emissions where way up something like 120 when really 40 to 50 is a good medium, but HC always means bad ignition components resulting in poor combustion, I know the plugs and dizzy where ok and coil because I replaced all those, so I replaced the leads with some magnecor leads in the end, the 10 year guarantee is a bonus and should see me out and I would of sold the car by then lol cus the gf wants marriage and babies long before then lol but normal leads break-up way to fast for the money you pay for them so went down the magnecor rout and problem solved.


Other areas to try,

MAF (could be dirty)

EGR Valve (faulty one will give you the same problems and especially at 2000 revs, when they open and close at the wrong time boost pressure is lost in the inlet system, had this problem on a turbo astra once, it was down to a Dirty EGR Valve and faulty EGR solenoid)

AIR TEMP SENSOR (located in the air box, I beleve it controls air to fuel ratio mix)

Thanks for your reply mate I've got a set of original leads so I'll give them a try. If that fails I'll try the other bits you mentioned

[paul port]

Well if you DO have a Rev3 Turbo (as in your Sig) then you do not have EGR or a MAF, and the important Airtemp sensor is just behind the Throttle.

The Rev3's have Larger injectors than the Rev1/2's and so the "Cold Start Injector" (electric choke) was not necessary. The ECU knows the engine is cold from the Coolant Sensor (the sensor with 2wires passenger side after the filler cap)

If your running problems are only when Cold, and below 4000 RPM, that's where I would look next.

[Evo-Mr2]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have a similar problem on my Rev 3 tubby.

Last night I went to change the leads and I could not get the 3rd lead (the one that is the most difficult to get to!) off the spark plug?

Do the leads ever corrode onto the spark plug as this lead would not budge no matter how hard I pulled it!

Graham

[Bone]

Well if you DO have a Rev3 Turbo (as in your Sig) then you do not have EGR or a MAF, and the important Airtemp sensor is just behind the Throttle.

The Rev3's have Larger injectors than the Rev1/2's and so the "Cold Start Injector" (electric choke) was not necessary. The ECU knows the engine is cold from the Coolant Sensor (the sensor with 2wires passenger side after the filler cap)

If your running problems are only when Cold, and below 4000 RPM, that's where I would look next.

Yes bud I have got a rev 3. That sensor sounds like the problem. I'll order one asap and report back on here. Cheers mate.

[Vindezal]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I have a similar problem on my Rev 3 tubby.

Last night I went to change the leads and I could not get the 3rd lead (the one that is the most difficult to get to!) off the spark plug?

Do the leads ever corrode onto the spark plug as this lead would not budge no matter how hard I pulled it!

Graham

My 3rd plug lead into the dizzy cap always corrodes too. keep sanding it back and it does make a difference. Why the hell does water get in that way when i have a engine lid cover still in??

[Bone]

Well I changed the sensor and it did sort it or so I thought. Its loads better but just recently its started to do it again but not as bad and not all the time. Air temp sensor next?

[djpkins]

Do you need to bleed air out of your system? If the prob goes away when water has been allowed to circulate after turning the blower fan to hot you have air in the system or maybe a sticky thermostat.

[Bone]

Do you need to bleed air out of your system? If the prob goes away when water has been allowed to circulate after turning the blower fan to hot you have air in the system or maybe a sticky thermostat.

The thermostats not very old and it does it even with the heaters off.

[paul port]

If you are still having trouble, could I suggest another couple of areas to check that won't cost you a penny...

MAP Sensor.
This is the primary sensor responsible for fuelling in a Rev3.
It can be found on the rear of the engine bay, drivers side next to the "Check Connector". It has a Purple sticker.
It's very popular for people to Spur into the hose for Boost Gauges or sensors for Boost Controllers...
Potentially this is a bad thing to do! as any leak in the pipe would act like a bleed-valve on the sensor causing you to under fuel. Check the hose is direct (via the plastic filter) and intact. There are other places to get a pressure pipe from if you need it for aftermarket things.

Engine Sensor Ground.
The engine has one main ground point for EFI, it's on the underside of the inlet manifold. There is a single bolt with multiple wires coming from it. Remove, clean, re-fit, and cover in battery grease to protect from moisture.


Final Questions,
1) Have you ever checked the ECU for error codes? Search the forum for instructions
2) Do you have any aftermarket bits fitted to the Engine / ECU?



PS,
In response to the PM,
The air temp sensor is a very slow responding sensor - and would have to be quite far out of spec to cause these problems. You can check it easily enough with a multimeter - if you can find an appropriate BGB online for the temperature graph. You need to look for the EFI manual for the Celica GT4 ST205 - I got rid of my printed copy when I sold the car

[paul port]

RM398E page EG-131 (146)
http://forum.celica.ee/viewthread.php?tid=3890

[Bone]

Thank you and merry Christmas! I'll have a look at those things over the next few days

[Bone]

Cars sorted! It was the lambda sensor lead shorting out! Who ever connected it in the past only used tape to cover the elecrical connections, the tape melted which caused it to short out. She's running perfect now.

[paul port]

Good news...
That fault should definitely have raised an error code
goes to show... always start fault finding with the basics!

[Bone]

Got some bad news, the problems back. I'll explain what's happened...

Original problem was only when cold then ran fine once warmed up. Then it started doing it really bad all the time regarding the temperature. It showed error code 21 (lambda sensor). Right some progress, I checked out the lambda sensor to find that where it had be connected to the original loom in the past it was shorting out! I repaired the sensor and it ran like a dream for a few days. The it started to run rough again but only when cold.

Since then I've changed the lambda sensor for a new plug in one and reset the ecu. Still rough when cold but flys once warm? I did notice a slight exhaust leak near the turbo when I fired it up to check the installation of the sensor.

The map sensor has been tapped into for my boost controller sensor and my boost gauge, this has been like this for months with no problems.

Still need to check the earth point. Bloody weather.

Any other ideas? This is really getting to me now

[mrdb]

I have same problem, replaced coil, leads , dizzy cap rotor, plugs. Im thinking its vac pipe related, once warm it seals. i did notice recently it does it worse if i do tight turns when cold so im thinking it could be vac lines to power steering pump..... need to get in and take a look....

[djpkins]

bleed your system...sounds like you could have an air lock that works its way to the thermostat...then disipates when warm water is circulated around a bit.