How can you break it

[solly]

The mr2 is having some work done and phoned up today to see how they are getting on with it and they told me they have broken the starter motor getting it out and a new one going to cost me £80.
Now do you think this is possable or are they trying to pull a fast one used the garage before with no problems, how would break a starter motor getting it out.

Cheers

[Si_Crewe]

Regardless of "how" they broke it, I'd be asking them to explain WHY I'm paying for something THEY admit to breaking.

Having said that, there ARE occasions when a garage is entitled to do something like this.
Let's say I want something doing to the bottom of my engine.
The sump is stuck on with liquid gasket.
If they damage the sump while removing it and feel that a new one is required I WILL have to suck it up because they were forced to damage the sump in order to carry out the work.

What work are you having done?
If you're having the clutch replaced it's pretty normal to remove the starter motor.
They might have sheared a bolt off while removing it.
In that case it's probably fair to charge you for it.

Conversely, if you were having a new exhaust fitted and some ham-fisted mechanic managed to melt the connector on the starter motor with a blowlamp while trying to free off exhaust bolts then it's really up to the garage to foot the bill.

Easiest way to ensure everything is legit' is simply to ask them to keep the damaged item so you can inspect it.
If they try and tell you've they've binned it I'd be a bit suspicious.

[toxo]

You have to take the starter motor off to get the gearbox off and they can be a real pain to release... but if that were the case they'd break / shear / drill the bolts rather than breaking the motor!

[solly]

The work i am having done is

Gearbox replaced

New clutch

Cambelt kit fitted

[John145]

Imagine it'd take a bit of swinging to break a starter motor. You'll also be paying £200-£400 labour for the work so I'd be tempted to demand they pay for the replacement.

[Martin F]

I have come across this myself before, even with the gearbox out i couldn't remove the starter motor, the shell seemed to have expanded making it a solid join between it and the gearbox, the only way to remove it was to break it,

[solly]

I have come across this myself before, even with the gearbox out i couldn't remove the starter motor, the shell seemed to have expanded making it a solid join between it and the gearbox, the only way to remove it was to break it,

So they could be telling the truth then

[phipck]

but still you shouldnt pay for their problem.

lets say you pay me to move your house hold goods when moving home, i loose it out the back of the lorry while driving on the motorway, i then tell you that its your problem and theres an addittional fee for me collecting it off the motor way i think you would be on to the trading standards or ombodsman.

they should have public liability insurence at least, this would cover you for any breakages etc.

if however they asked what you wished them to do before breaking it and you said "give it a go and hopefuly it wont break" then that would be different as you had accepted the risk.

[Si_Crewe]

but still you shouldnt pay for their problem.

lets say you pay me to move your house hold goods when moving home, i loose it out the back of the lorry while driving on the motorway, i then tell you that its your problem and theres an addittional fee for me collecting it off the motor way i think you would be on to the trading standards or ombodsman.

I think the issue is one of negligence.
If the garage causes damage by negligence then they're responsible for it.
If, however, they damage something while carrying out the work you requested in a competent manner then they won't be held responsible.

This subject was a big issue a while back.
In the end it was concluded that the people you hire should act in your best interests. That's what you pay them for.
As long as what they're doing IS in your best interests then they should be left to get on with it.
In this case, for example, the garage could have phoned up and said "Hi, we've sheared bolts on your starter motor. We can try and drill them out and then rethread the holes but there's no guarantees about how long it will take or if it will be okay afterwards or we can order a new starter motor. What do you want us to do?".
The reason they usually don't do this is cos most of the time the answer will be "Do whatever you think is for the best".

Beyond that, it'd end up getting ridiculous for a garage. Every time any kind of decision needed to be made they'd be forced to phone up the owner and ask what they wanted to do.
So, instead, they developed this idea of doing stuff in the best interests of a client.

Also, finally, you're also messing with this huge Pandora's Box about ethics.
Let's say you want something simple like new brake pads.
At one extreme, you arrive to pick up your car and find that they've charged you £400 because the discs were getting a bit thin and the calipers were worn.
Alternatively, there's a situation where the job takes 2 months because every time they find a rusty bolt they need to phone you to get authorisation to deal with it as they see fit.
At the other extreme you take the car away, only to find the brakes are still making a horrid noise.
You take the car back to the garage and they say "Oh yeah, your discs are knackered too but you didn't say anything about them so we just did what we were told.

Basically, the only practical way forward IS to trust that a garage will act in your best interests but that they WILL actually act rather than sitting around waiting for your approval for every last facet of the work.


I'm not saying that's definitely the case here.
I'm just saying you can't always assume a garage is negligent just because they do cause damage to something.


Incidentally, I seem to recall one specific case about this.
It was something to do with a sensor which ALWAYS broke when you removed it and it had to be removed as part of the service.
Somebody noticed there was always a bill for a new sensor as part of their invoice and there was a big fuss on Watchdog about it.
In the end it was decided that the dealers WERE actually entitled to break the sensor and charge for a replacement if that's what it took to complete the service work.

[bobhatton]

Starter motors get stuck all the time in the housing but its how one goes about removing it. I bet they just used a big hammer or leaver and snapped part of it off. If so then you should not have to pay for it.
Go and have a look at the starter to see what the problem is, take a photo and post it on here.

Bob

[Nod]

I've broke one. I was hitting it with a big lump hammer and the casing cracked in half, so it is possible to break one.

Lyndon.

[bobhatton]

I've broke one. I was hitting it with a big lump hammer and the casing cracked in half, so it is possible to break one.

Lyndon.

What garage do you work in?...................lol

Bob

[solly]

Well i told them to change my gear box so u have to take the starter motor out to do that so i spose u could say i told them to do it.
But i just dont like the way they just went and orderd another starter motor with out phoning me to tell me whats going on.

[Si_Crewe]

Well i told them to change my gear box so u have to take the starter motor out to do that so i spose u could say i told them to do it.
But i just dont like the way they just went and orderd another starter motor with out phoning me to tell me whats going on.

That's a perfectly fair comment and, if a garage is genuinely on the level, they SHOULD at least have the starter motor lying in the boot of your car so they can show you exactly what happened and why they're billing you for it.

I mean, it might be a simple case of them saying "I'm sorry mate but it was jammed in place and the case cracked while we were trying to free it off" and, in that case, I think you'd have to say it is just bad luck.

However, if they aren't forthcoming about what happened I'd be a little concerned.