3S Service Centre - Not impressed at all

[Moo]

No doubt this post will come as a shock to many people as 3S have a reputation on this forum for doing great work and this section is filled with glowing reports and many recommendations for their services.

I recently had a charge cooler conversion done by 3S and chose them to do the work based on all the good things that have been said on this forum. Unfortunately I have to say that I'm very unhappy with the standard of the finished article. I think that the workmanship is sloppy and of a very low quality. The whole conversion appears to have been bodged into the car by some amateur on a Saturday afternoon and is nowhere near the kind of finish I was expecting from a company that supposedly specialises in working on MR2's and comes with such a high reputation. The work is so poor that my mechanic is having to practically rip it all out and start again. I paid 3S £500 for this conversion and am now having to pay someone else to do it properly.



The CC isn't held down in any way other than by the pipework. Granted, the CC isn't designed for the MR2 but there is one place where it can be bolted to the engine. How hard is it to put a bolt in? From reading up on other people's experiences with fitting the CC they would normally cut away one of the brackets on the left hand side but in my case it was left on resulting in metal on metal contact with the elbow that houses the ECU temp sensor. I'm not sure why the overflow was blanked off either? Upon leaving 3S after collecting my car I noticed that my blitz dump valve sounded different. Instead of whooshing like it used to it was making a fluttering noise. I asked James about this and was told that the DV would need adjusting as pressure was going back into the turbo and stalling it. Why would it need adjusting when it was working perfectly ok before? Possibly caused by the 90 degree bend and major kink in the hose that was fitted to hold the DV?











I think the CC pump is situated in a really bad place right at the bottom of the gearbox, very low and exposed. It's also not mounted very securely and has loads of free play in it. The wiring itself is not protected and was left rubbing on metal. It wouldn't have been long before it was shorting out. There's loads of excess wire just wrapped around a bracket in the engine bay and bare wire inside the fuse box.



The plastic undertray at the back of the car has been sliced and a water pipe fed through. The sharp plastic is cutting into the pipe and this would eventually start leaking.



It's the same where the pipes come out at the front of the car. A sliced under tray which is digging into the pipe. Another leak waiting to happen.





I'm not happy with the way the hoses have been cable tied to the air con pipe. This is a fragile pipe and could easily break. There is loads of movement in the pipework and they are banging about. Surely there is a better way to secure these pipes?











The lower mounting brackets for the CC radiator frankly are shocking. How long is that really bad welding going to hold up. There aren't actually any upper brackets for the radiator, it's held in place with one cable tie attached to the towing eye.



The radiator is completely on the slant, is not secured properly, is very loose and just banging about in there. In one corner it's also rubbing metal on metal.



I don't think I'm being picky about any of this. I paid a lot of money to have this work done and I'm sorry to say that it's a bodge job. All of these problems could have been avoided with a little more thought and attention to detail.

I wouldn't recommend 3S to anybody on the strength of the work they have done to my car and most certainly will not be taking it back to them again.

[3S Service Centre]

Im sorry your not happy

There are off course better ways / more time consuming ways to carry out every part of the job, and off course if you were not recieving £380 pounds worth of parts fitted for £500 i could have spent double the time on the job, i was satisfied that there was nothing dangerous and it was all in working order. where there are cable ties its to prevent movement not supprt or hold the weight of things, the additonal cabling is because you will need plenty spare if you will need to remove the gearbox for a clutch change etc the same goes for connections that can be popped apart, The chargecooler is not a direct fit and is not required to be bolted down its simply a question of choice.

You bought into a budget deal where the only cost saving was on labour time, i am more than happy to accept that there are better ways of fitting parts, ie removing the front bumper (we both know that was not really wanted because its aftermarket.

I dont think this makes us bad at what we do, you got what you wanted on a shoe string, you have to understand that there was a budget of £120 labour because the collection of parts came to £380 when your car arrived it couldnt even fit on the ramps that every other mr2 will. £120 labour is 3 hours, you got 7 hours work.

Once again if you feel that there was something unsafe or not what you payed for, you have every right to disscuss it with me, choosing to say nothing and post this comes as a surprise .

If you check your invoice you will also find that we didnt charge for the time involved in actually getting your car on the ramps because it was not fit to fit.

We commonly slice through the plastic undertrays because the mr2 was not designed for the pipework involved with a chargecooler, in some places it must be cut so it can be bolted back securely, commonly we find people leave them off because they do not fit back on.

If you think you know better about the overflow take it off.

The rubber hose we used on yours at a cost of £85 will not split over the plastic, there are no leaks waiting to happen, the hose we use is better than any you will find with any aftermarket kit and is very tough but supple.

you very clearly told me the aircon wasnt working and you wouldnt mind losing it, so why the problem it being used ad a place to position the additional pipework??

The pump is in a perfect position, the lower down the better, do not bolt up the jubilee clip tight or it will damage the pump. If it fails I know whats been done.

The radiator is at a slant beacuse of your front bumper.

I must say im not sure you understood what you was getting involved with.

We normally charge £280 for fitting chargecoolers, you have taken advantage of a bargain deal and expect the premium level service, maybe that was bad communication on my part

I would like to add that none of the parts sit lower than your front bumper ensuring clearance.

The rubber connection was used because your dumpvalve wouldnt fit to the new core, i never said it was the perfect setup so what your getting at im not sure.


Kingsmill is much better bread than Tesco's value because it costs 4 times the amount.

Im genuinely shocked at your post but sorry if you think I have tried to misslead you, I thought it was common knowledge you get what you pay for, you might remember me being amazed at the quality of the core itself??? its better than what people normally pay full whack for, are you not happy atleast about that? if so could you not say???

At 3S we offer different services at different prices, prices that reflect time spent on the job, if you were paying the same as everyone else you would have got a far better quality fit, so im not saying we coudlnt have done better.

We do cheap quick jobs, we do extensive labour intensive expensive jobs, and everything in the middle.

Please tell me did you honestly think you were paying for a premium rate service when you responded to the special price in the affiliates section? if you payed for it i could have made all the brackets from chrome removed the TTE sticker and put the right way round, wired a switch into the dash with a free temp display, come on.

I could, and have in the past, made your chargecooler fit like toyota would have intended, thats why we have the reputation you talk about, but you did not pay for that service you payed for the cheap option (which is why we have the reputation you talk about). So please do not try to make us look bad without atleast consulting me with your findings, and allowing me to explain, as half of your points above are irrelavant of workmanship, but cost in parts alone.

This week I inpsected a car that a customer just purchased for £1600, there were loads of things that could be improved on with the car i had list longer then my leg, but when the customer asked how bad is it, it said it reflects what you payed and the age of the car. I could have made the last owner appear a right to$$er but it wasn necessary. Worth a thought??

I must say i dont think you have thought this through and you dont understand the impact on a mans honest business. Its simply not right that you can slander our good name and reputation without the respect of sharing it with me first, It saddens me even more every day when people think they can buy into a cheap deal they can expect perfection, we offer budget deals from time to time for those who cannot afford lexus deals. It shows complete lack of understanding and makes me want to jack it in sometimes. You simply cannot buy a ferrari for mr2 money.

At 1.30 am (finishing my work) im retiring for the day to consider if we will continue to serve the mr2 community as a result of crazy posts like this.

James

[Moo]

First off you quoted me £300 for parts and £200 for labour as per your PM to me so lets be straight about that.

3S Service Centre wrote:
Righto fella managed to source all the bits ready for your install, i will need 300 upfront paying for the parts, the rest is payable on completion.
Let me know when your ready.
James



You talk about doing the work on a shoe string, buying into a budget deal and a cheap deal. Where did it say that in the affiliates section? I don't recall seeing the advert saying CC's fitted on a shoe string budget? As far as I knew all the work you did was to the same standard.

I've just spent 6k on my car getting it kitted and sprayed, new wheels etc and wanted / was expecting a top quality job as a starting point for the big power mods I'm planning later in the year. At no point did I ever say to you that I wanted to scrimp on this job or do it on a shoe string budget. No mention was ever made of the different levels of workmanship that you could provide and I was under the impression that all of your work was done to the highest standard. You seem to be saying that the quality of your work will differ between a budget deal and a premium level service. That's very reassuring! So I got the Tesco's welding and wiring then did I? How much extra would it have cost to get the Kingsmill?

I'm not talking about attention to fine detail like chrome brakets etc, I'm referring to basic professional workmanship such as good welding, strong mount points and wiring that isn't bare or chafing on metal. I'm not a mechanic so had no idea of the time it would take to do the job or the refinements that were available. Yes, I wanted this CC to look like it was fitted by Toyota. I have the money to do it and would have been prepared to pay that price if I'd have known the option was there. I never said you were bad at what you do (apart from welding) and I also never said I wanted it done on a shoe string.

I am happy with the core itself and it does seem to be doing a good job in the limited miles that I've been able to do since getting the car back. You did say so yourself that you were unsure if it was a TTE core or just a normal one with a sticker on it.

I very cleary did NOT say that my air con wasn't working and I'd be happy to lose it so I don't know where you got that one from. My air con works just fine thanks and always has done.

I didn't say I knew better about the overflow either, I just wondered why it was blanked off. What's supposed to happen if it does need to overflow?

What has really annoyed me about all this is that there are certain areas where you have taken shortcuts that has let the work down. The wiring to the pump for instance. It is protected by plastic armour where it connects to the pump but stops after a few inches leaving the rest of the wiring to rub against the back of the engine. Is this an example of work on a shoe string? If I was paying you £500 labour to fit the CC would you have run the wire in a better way or armoured it where it was rubbing? That wire will eventually wear away and could cause problems and to me that is an example of sloppy workmanship and nothing to do with different levels of service as you put it. I pay you to do a job and I expect the basics doing properly. I accept your points about the pop out connectors and extra wiring in the engine bay but notice you make no mention of the bare wiring in the fuse box.

It's the same with the radiator brackets. No matter how you try to dress it up that is really terrible welding. What's price got to do with a good strong weld? Because this was a budget deal means I get crap welding that's in danger of failing? As the radiator is only held in at the top by a cable tie it will fall out if those bottom brackets fail and it's very likely that they would have failed at some point. The bumper is not the cause of the radiator being on the slant, how can it be? There's plenty of space in there and it's the same shape all the way across with nothing sticking out that would make it sit to one side. The reason it's slanted is because of the cable tie on one side pulling it across. Yes, it's not desirable to have had the front bumper removed but I would have if I'd known the CC radiator was only going to be held in by 1 cable tie and 2 dodgy brackets!

You say the cable ties are there to prevent movement and not to take load. Fair enough if that was the case but it's not. The pipework at the front of the car is very loose and is banging around, especially the section with the red pipe. As previously mentioned my air con works fine and the movement in those water pipes is enough to fracture that air con pipe over a period of time.

I disagree when you say the plastic undertrays won't cut the water pipes enough to make them leak. The edge of that plastic is sharp and there are already some noticeable score lines in them. Why take the risk and leave them rubbing anyway? I don't have a problem with you cutting the undertrays, I have a problem with them being cut in such a way as to be rubbing the pipes in the first place. Why not cut out a section of the tray instead of just making a slice and forcing the pipe through?

What I'm getting at about the DV is this. It was dumping perfectly when the car arrived to you. When I got it back it wasn't and the turbo was stalling out. I believe this is because of the massive kink in the pipe caused by the 90 degree bend. Had I not questioned you about it when I got home I would have driven about like that possibly damaging my turbo. Again, my point is poor workmanship. You obviously knew there was a big kink in the pipe and since you drove the car after the CC was fitted you would have heard the sound of the fluttering dump valve. Why leave a big kink in the pipe in the first place. You say it wasn't perfect but I say it's far from acceptable.

You say I don't know what i was getting into, well plainly I didn't. I didn't know that basic jobs would be done to an inferior level because I was unknowingly placed into the shoe string budget category. When I pay for a service, any service be it cars or something else I expect the work to be done properly to a certain standard regardless of the price. No matter how you try and turn it back to me there are certain areas of the work you have done that are sub standard and I don't see how you can argue that any differently.

I'm not trying to make you look bad or make you out to be a to$$er and neither have I slandered you. I feel I've been let down by the quality of your work and have stated my case to that end in line with the rules of this forum. Perhaps I should have spoken to you about this first but given your reaction when I called you about my boost controller solenoid packing up while you had the car I decided that you wouldn't be receptive to what I had to say so there was no point in trying. Before you jump on that statement I'm not accusing you of breaking the solenoid, I accept that it was an unfortunate coincidence and that you were not responsible for that.

You accuse me of making a crazy post and are clearly trying to rally up your supporters against me by threatening to stop serving the MR2 community. Would that be response every time you got some bad press? If you do indeed decide to do that over a bad report then that's your choice. Let people look at the pictures and make up their own minds.

[3S Service Centre]

So here lies the problem.

"and wanted / was expecting a top quality job as a starting point for the big power mods I'm planning later in the year"

"You talk about doing the work on a shoe string, buying into a budget deal and a cheap deal. Where did it say that in the affiliates section? I don't recall seeing the advert saying CC's fitted on a shoe string budget? As far as I knew all the work you did was to the same standard."

"What has really annoyed me about all this is that there are certain areas where you have taken shortcuts that has let the work down"

Clearly you expected me to spend the same time on this than someone paying £280 for fitting alone, you are very confused if you think you get a top qaulity fit of part that dont belong on a car for 3 hours labour time.

What you was expecting and what you payed for were a world apart, if you were expecting a top quality finish on tesco money you could have disscussed it with me and i would have been very clear that its not possible.

When you have certain bits changed to your liking, the bill you recieve will reflect the time spent on the job, only atleast the next guy will have the pleasure of being able to roll you car onto some ramps.



The £300 you payed upfront was for the bulk of the parts, I purchased the bits from here and the pipework was terrible and made up from bathroom bits, so i didnt give it to you, I replaced it with quality material.

£300 I asked for upfront is for the bulk of the hardware, where do you think the other bits come from, coolant for example ?? just falls into the hole, no! someone has to pay for it.

You bought cheap and got cheap its obvious. There is no needs for big signs to make that clear.

Nothing has failed, the fit works and nothing has fallen out, this is simply a case of you not liking the quality of finish which is because you bought cheap,

You have made loads of assumptions, it might fall apart etc.
The welds are not pretty by any stretch but they willnot fail you are just looking at them and guessing they (might)

You have a working system installed on a shoe string, it has not failed, nothing bad has happened, the problem is its not finished to the standard you prefer, thats because you bought into a cheap deal.

You slate me here, then ask about the fitting of parts???????

For every normal person, they ask before feeling it acceptable to comment.

Your not happy, ok, I am 100% sure this is because you think you get Lexus deals for skoda money.

The pictures show a quick cheap install what you payed for. The people that payed sensible money for a quality job know what we can do.

[Anonymous]

i think you should make it clear from the begining what kind of level of work the customer can expect,not come on afterwards saying you paid cheap so got cheap! thats disgusting!

if it was my business i would only offer one level of service,and thats a very good one! and make the price clear from the start! hence you wont get any come back like this!

having worked on mr2`s myself for 8 years the quality of that work is absolutly shocking!

tesco`s? looks more like happy shopper to me!

[3S Service Centre]

Ah all is revealed!

I could tear your jobs apart too! You get what you pay for end of, offering a cheap service may not be your choice but we have done, and have many many happy customers that have recieved low end services they couldnt otherwise afford, then improved on them over time when they can afford it. We have lots of happy customers who also prefer to pay more first time round.

Its clear whats happening here now, we got another trader involved, well like i said send me some of your work to inspect.

Im guessing your gonna charge to improve on the budget work already done ??? , would be very keen to know how much you charge.

Do we have a secret imoc trader behind the scenes??

[Anonymous]

lol,

1: im not a trader
2: i dont know the guy who made the complaint,or will i be working on his car!

now that is cleared up,my point was you should have made it clear to him from the begining what kind of work he could have expected,and also explained he could have had a better job done if he paid more money!

if you want to offer cheap jobs thats up to you..........its your name it comes back on in the end!

[3S Service Centre]

lol,

1: im not a trader
2: i dont know the guy who made the complaint,or will i be working on his car!

now that is cleared up,my point was you should have made it clear to him from the begining what kind of work he could have expected,and also explained he could have had a better job done if he paid more money!

if you want to offer cheap jobs thats up to you..........its your name it comes back on in the end!

Are you sure

Yes you are right, we will not be offering low end stuff any longer because there is always the odd missguided person who thinks they get a ferrari for 20 quid that wants to upset things for others.

James

[Anonymous]

Are you sure

yep

Yes you are right, we will not be offering low end stuff any longer because there is always the odd missguided person who thinks they get a ferrari for 20 quid that wants to upset things for others.

James

missguided?
well surely he was missguided by yourselves? for not making it 100% clear what he should expect for his money!
you gave him a price for parts and fitting,hes made it quite clear that at no point did you mention it was a budget fitting! otherwise he would have paid more for a "proper job"!

[3S Service Centre]

missguided?
well surely he was missguided by yourselves? for not making it 100% clear what he should expect for his money!
you gave him a price for parts and fitting,hes made it quite clear that at no point did you mention it was a budget fitting! otherwise he would have paid more for a "proper job"!

And when you see something being sold very cheaply you dont think to question why its so cheap??? missguided !

[Anonymous]

missguided?
well surely he was missguided by yourselves? for not making it 100% clear what he should expect for his money!
you gave him a price for parts and fitting,hes made it quite clear that at no point did you mention it was a budget fitting! otherwise he would have paid more for a "proper job"!

And when you see something being sold very cheaply you dont think to question why its so cheap??? missguided !

lol,
it was your advert! so you have just admitted you missguided potential customers! well done

[3S Service Centre]

Nothing missguiding about it.

Chargecooler supplied and fitted for 500.

It doesnt say where the saving is, but it also doesnt say you get it fitted to your requirements. Those are details to be discussed if required.

I charged 500 its fitted and nothing has failed. Done.

Are you moo's big sister or something??

[Anonymous]

lol,
your very funny!

instead of making excuses and pointless attempts at humourous remarks maybe you should put the time into your fitting and welding skills

[3S Service Centre]

drama queen stir it up

[Anonymous]

drama queen stir it up

drama?
if you had done that job on my car i would be taking you to court!
hows that for drama?

looks like it was done by the monkys in the local safari park!

[3S Service Centre]

[Johnny G]

every job has a price - and £500 for a cc supplied AND fitted is very reasonable - you can't expect detailing and the car to be torn down so everything is in perfect situ.

If it was £500 just for labour, then I'd say yes you're right. But it wasn't.

Personally, it looks worse than it is. James has worked on enough MR2's and knows enough about them to know what is safe, and what isn't - hence his reputation.

You'll always get a small % of people who are not happy/deluded/disappointed etc, but at the end of the day. The job was more function over form for that price - and it works. He got what he paid for.

[3S Service Centre]

Alas a balanced opinion.

Without doubt there is room for improvement if you wish.

James

[Charged]

I really cant be bothered to read the whole thread... but the bare bones are you paid £500 for a charge cooler AND install... billy bargain!! Job look fine for what you paid for... As James has stated you got 7 hours worth of work for £120... what are you moaning about?

[3S Service Centre]

Our services are insured and work garunteed, if something fails call me.
Last post.
James