[Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Posts about anything do to with modifying your car such as fitting aftermarket parts, bodykit, or tuning the engine for more performance.

Moderators: IMOC Moderators, IMOC Committee Members

Tsia
Posts: 1569
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:12 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

[Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Tsia »

So, I've searched but only found much older threads about this. I've already got a new intercooler ordered up so I can replace the stock one and I'm considering a WI kit - what're the current views on this? Is anybody running one at the minute? For reference I'm using a stock CT20b, but with a bunch of long driving trips planned this year (as well as some track time) I want to do all that I can to reduce the risk of detonation with increased boost levels, and of course get it running as cool as possible.
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Dale_V »

I've one . Brilliant to suppress detonation. I wish I'd have ran one on my stock engine then I wouldn't have popped the ringlands

I don't see any downsides to water meth
Tsia
Posts: 1569
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:12 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Tsia »

Which kit do you use? Would it be possible to get a few pictures of your install at all? Looking to fit it on the driveway if possible :D

Edit: Scratch that, found pictures in one of your threads :thumleft:
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Dale_V »

Its the AEM progressive kit with water flow gauge.

They're very easy to fit, the hardest part is making it all look neat and tidy.

Mines mapped into set up, it allowed for a few extra degrees of advanced timing and I think it was an extra 20bhp and that was before I started leaning out the fuelling to take advantage of the meth input!

The extra cooling benefits and assistance against detonation are the main plus points though. Id definitley get one on a stock engine, especially with increased boost and trackdays.
fastasfkk
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: eastbourne

meth kit

Post by fastasfkk »

Aquamist is 1 of the best uk based also
Tsia
Posts: 1569
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:12 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Tsia »

I'm not too bothered about it looking neat, I'll spend hours on that part, it's just making sure it works. I'll be running a stock ECU, and as much as the basic kits seem fine, I'm currently leaning more towards the progressive ones - anybody know if there'll be much of a difference on a relatively stock Rev 3?

Also - I'll be doing a drive out to Germany early next year, if say, I ran out of 50/50 water/meth mix, would swapping in just water suffice for a while?

Cheers :thumleft:
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Dale_V »

as you're not mapping it then swapping out from 50/50 to just water will be fine. the water will help with det, but not aid in power like the meth would

I would always get progressive as you'll be able to start spraying a minimal amount at a desired boost pressure, then letting the amount sprayed build up to the full amount at the final boost pressure. That will help avoid the engine bogging down from the water/meth input, which can happen especially when you're not mapping to compensate.
Tsia
Posts: 1569
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:12 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Tsia »

Sounds like a plan :)

Obviously I'm not 'planning' on running out, just needed to know in case I'm in the middle of nowhere when it happens. Thanks!
jimGTS
Posts: 14024
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: North Kent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by jimGTS »

boost is so instant i cant see the need for a progressive kit.
by the time the boost switch see's the desired boost, your already at full boost anyways (on a quick spooling turbo like the stock one).

ive run a basic coolingmist kit the last 2-3years. stock and blitz ecu. i have it turning on around 0.9bar.
cracked some of the fastest 1/4 mile times on the stock turbo to date, suppression of det has likely helped me get there on top of fine tuning the fueling.

i still run it now on a td06 turbo, stock engine, though ive now got a radtek CC, but i still run the WI.
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Dale_V »

boost could well be instant, but its not ideal putting the same amount of water/meth in at the start point of say 0.9bar and at 1.3 bar...

same as it wouldnt be ideal putting the same amount of fuel in at 0.9 and then 1.3bar, which is exactly why fuelling isnt set like that, be it a stock ecu or a mapped ecu :eye: :wink:
jimGTS
Posts: 14024
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: North Kent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by jimGTS »

on a large WI injector maybe what you say is more valid, but not the sizes that come with most of these kits.

you cannot compare a tiny WI injector to 4 fuel injectors.
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Dale_V »

my point is 100% valid, it doesnt need to be more valid :lol:

and yup of course it can be compared to 4 injectors:

4 injectors inject more and more (progressive is the word ;)) fuel the higher the engine revs/higher the turbo boosts, so why wouldnt that apply to another added source of fuel, water meth? (same applies to nitrous)
jimGTS
Posts: 14024
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: North Kent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by jimGTS »

unless you have progressive BOOST, then no its not valid.

once you hit 1.3bar, it injects the same amount, no matter at 3k rpm or 7k rpm.
so no its not the same as fuel injectors.
Tsia
Posts: 1569
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:12 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Tsia »

If it makes any difference, I was planning to have it come on at anything above stock boost, up to 1.2 bar (as I'd hit the fuel cut @ 1.3, plus be outside of the efficiency range of the ct20 i'd assume?)
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Dale_V »

jimGTS wrote:unless you have progressive BOOST, then no its not valid.

once you hit 1.3bar, it injects the same amount, no matter at 3k rpm or 7k rpm.
so no its not the same as fuel injectors.


everyone has progressive boost :lol: no one just hits max boost straight away, theres always a build up no matter how small. and by dumping water/meth in all at once from the off is exactly the same theory as dumping the same amount of fuel youd input at higher boost as you would lower.

Its just not the best way to do things. Yeah it works, but it limits the efficiency of what water/meth can do, you reduce the window in which you can operate. Get a progressive kit and then you could start injecting at much lower boost letting you benefit from lower cylinder temperatures from the off, not just the higher end.

it doesnt even cost that much, its a bit of a no brainer tbh
jimGTS
Posts: 14024
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: North Kent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by jimGTS »

lol, you are choosing to get around what im saying when referring to your comments.

i know boost isnt on or off, but YOU were comparing it to fuel injectors pumping in more fuel higher in the revs.

unless your boost in progressive over a LONG rpm band, then its pointless.

id bet on a stock turbo it takes a 1/10th of a second to go from 0.9 to 1.3bar on a WOT pull, the pump simply wont react this quickly. therefore making a progressive controller pointless on a small injector with a quick spooling turbo, IMO.

im glad your happy with your setup, im happy with mine.
Dale_V
Posts: 7979
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 pm
Contact:

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Dale_V »

I did type out a long reply, but imoc asked me to log in again after hitting the submit button and lost it all

anyway, theres plenty of documents out there, just seach google, non progressive v's progressive water meth

I like to be done with it and buy the best the 1st time around. I cant even remember what mine cost me, £400? i dunno exactly, but £400 is nothing really, especially when it IS superior
jimGTS
Posts: 14024
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: North Kent

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by jimGTS »

im not denying its superior, however on the setup we are talking about from the OP, imo its a waste of money.

what is more important is the position of the injector.

as said, im happy your happy, my setup cost me very little (and ive no reason to cheap out on parts) because ive had experience of a progressive AEM in the past and found it made no noticeable difference.
i would however be interested to try out there WI gauge!
Tsia
Posts: 1569
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:12 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by Tsia »

Let's talk injector position then :)

I was planning to drop it in just after the IC but I've seen apparently that'll lower the benefits of the meth mix?
shinny
Posts: 2345
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Re: [Mk2] [Turbo] Water/meth injection

Post by shinny »

jimGTS wrote:unless you have progressive BOOST, then no its not valid.

once you hit 1.3bar, it injects the same amount, no matter at 3k rpm or 7k rpm.
so no its not the same as fuel injectors.


But 1.3bar boost at 3500rpm is only consuming air at half the rate as 1.3bar at 7000rpm. So if you're injecting the same rate of water/meth for both then you're actually injecting twice as much per cylinder stroke at the lower RPM than at the higher rpm... right? Or are non-progressive kits still reading the engine RPM and reacting to that?
Post Reply

Return to “Modifications”