Harness without rollcage

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mr2nut123
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Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

I've done a bit of research, and there seems to be opinions in all directons (as usual..)

With regards to the MR2 specifically and a non tbar, should the worst happen and it ends up upside down, do MR2s roofs hold up well without a rollcage? I can't personally imagine being forward a few inches after a stock belt has locked, would make such a difference wth regards to a roof compressing your neck. I'd imagine either way, you're bu88ered without a roll cage.

I don't track the car but I've got nice bucket seats and it seems like a shame not to finish them off with some nice green harnesses, not to mention the stock belts rubbing the side of the material off.

FYI I'm wanting some gmax 4 point harnesses so they're less faffy due to there being a single click belt still. :thumleft:
alanmr2turbo
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by alanmr2turbo »

T-Bars hold up being rolled pretty good. 2 Guys driving like knob heads in Birmingham rolled theirs. 1 lived 1 died but only as he wasn't wearing a seat belt and his head kind of came out the side window. Well you can guess the rest.

Oh and the t-bar never had a roll cage.
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

alanmr2turbo wrote:T-Bars hold up being rolled pretty good. 2 Guys driving like knob heads in Birmingham rolled theirs. 1 lived 1 died but only as he wasn't wearing a seat belt and his head kind of came out the side window. Well you can guess the rest.

Oh and the t-bar never had a roll cage.


Cheers Alan! Sorry to hear about the death, was that on a track?

Would be good to hear some more thoughts on it too from others.
alanmr2turbo
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by alanmr2turbo »

No they were knob heads being chased by police
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

alanmr2turbo wrote:No they were knob heads being chased by police


That would explain it then.. :roll:
CalMac
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by CalMac »

I like the look of harnesses in a road car but feel it would be a PITA in reality.

For them to be effective they need to be tight, making junctions and checking your blind spot etc. a challenge. Possibly even reaching the glovebox or stereo will be tricky :lol:

You're also more likely to suffer an injury using a harness on the road as the whole purpose of an inertia reel belt is to reduce the effects of a sudden impact on your body if you hit a tree or HGV etc. (aided by airbags). On track you're less likely to come to a sudden stop due to safety barriers and run-off space.

Finally it's a b*llache doing a harness up everytime you get in the car and a lot of my friends who've fitted them don't even bother to wear them now as a result..

If you do decide to get some harnesses (I'm guessing Takata if you want green?) make sure they're genuine - it's not worth the risk of knock-off belts allowing you to shoot through the windscreen :mrgreen: I've read previously that the firewall behind you is triple-skinned and is sufficient for fitting harnesses through with steel spreader plates - just fix at shoulder level and use the correct fixings for the other harness points :thumleft:
pbmr2
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by pbmr2 »

Have had harnesses in road cars before.

The first set I had were 4 point with a single clip on the lap belt. The above comments about usefulness on the road are true. You can't reach ticket machines in car parks, can't reach the radio or even heater controls, can't lean forward at junctions to see if it's clear etc etc.
On a warm day you will sweat through both shoulders and down your front, on a hot day you will wish you didn't have harnesses.

You can't adjust the seat forward or backward with ease as the belts then need readjusting to suit. The seat can't be tilted forward to use the space behind (putting T-bars there etc) as the harness will pass through the seat and prevent this.

Yeah they look cool and they make you feel like a real racer and do feel very safe but for the road the are a pain to live with. If looking cool is all you want then sure they can be fitted with spreader plates through the rear firewall.
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

CalMac wrote:I like the look of harnesses in a road car but feel it would be a PITA in reality.

For them to be effective they need to be tight, making junctions and checking your blind spot etc. a challenge. Possibly even reaching the glovebox or stereo will be tricky :lol:

You're also more likely to suffer an injury using a harness on the road as the whole purpose of an inertia reel belt is to reduce the effects of a sudden impact on your body if you hit a tree or HGV etc. (aided by airbags). On track you're less likely to come to a sudden stop due to safety barriers and run-off space.

Finally it's a b*llache doing a harness up everytime you get in the car and a lot of my friends who've fitted them don't even bother to wear them now as a result..

If you do decide to get some harnesses (I'm guessing Takata if you want green?) make sure they're genuine - it's not worth the risk of knock-off belts allowing you to shoot through the windscreen :mrgreen: I've read previously that the firewall behind you is triple-skinned and is sufficient for fitting harnesses through with steel spreader plates - just fix at shoulder level and use the correct fixings for the other harness points :thumleft:


Cheers for the info, appreciate real life experiences of them as I've never had them. The car is only a weekend toy, and never used over winter etc.

The harnesses I was looking at are the GMAX Luke harness in green so they're a good make. Not FIA, but fine for road use and more importantly, legal.

Could you not just have them slightly loose so you can lean forward a bit? I tend not to park in car parks that require those machines as it's more of an A to A car, or I park in a pub car park :wink:
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

pbmr2 wrote:Have had harnesses in road cars before.

The first set I had were 4 point with a single clip on the lap belt. The above comments about usefulness on the road are true. You can't reach ticket machines in car parks, can't reach the radio or even heater controls, can't lean forward at junctions to see if it's clear etc etc.
On a warm day you will sweat through both shoulders and down your front, on a hot day you will wish you didn't have harnesses.

You can't adjust the seat forward or backward with ease as the belts then need readjusting to suit. The seat can't be tilted forward to use the space behind (putting T-bars there etc) as the harness will pass through the seat and prevent this.

Yeah they look cool and they make you feel like a real racer and do feel very safe but for the road the are a pain to live with. If looking cool is all you want then sure they can be fitted with spreader plates through the rear firewall.


Again, really appreciate all those points matey. :thumleft:

My main issue with the stock belts is that the top section is rubbing on the material and slowly will wear it away. I have to increase the height of the slider to stop it, but it isn't very safe as the belt is then at my neck angle and not shoulder :(

Maybe a device that can hold the belt out a little more that can attach onto the OEM slider..?
Ginjaninja92
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by Ginjaninja92 »

I looked into the whole harness/rollcage/helmet/hans system quite a bit, not even because I was considering it, I was just interested to find some real answers.

The consensus from manufacturers of the equipment and those with real life experience was that if you want one part of the safety system, you need to really have it all.
Each part of it (fixed bucket, 6 point harness, rollcage, helmet and hans) works in conjunction with the rest.

For instance, if you install bucket seats and a harness without a rollcage and you then roll the car, you can't move your body so you'll crush your spine. Similarly, if you have a bucket seat and harness without a helmet and hans, and you hit a tree at 60, you will likely break your neck.
Just like having a rollcage without a helmet, you crash and hit your head off the cage and smash your bonce.

Hope that makes sense. If you're worried about your seat material wearing put some black gaffa tape where the belt rubs :thumleft:
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

CalMac
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by CalMac »

Don't see why not, seems pretty cool :thumleft: Best of both worlds
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

CalMac wrote:Don't see why not, seems pretty cool :thumleft: Best of both worlds


I had no idea this type of design even existed. When you guys mentioned the word 'inertia' I just got googling that along with harness and voila! So cheers :mrgreen:

This seems like a cracking choice in all aspects, and made in the UK too! :thumleft: It also apparently bolts right onto the stock seatbelt locations so no drilling or spreader plates needed.
Lefty1991
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by Lefty1991 »

mr2nut123 wrote:
CalMac wrote:Don't see why not, seems pretty cool :thumleft: Best of both worlds


I had no idea this type of design even existed. When you guys mentioned the word 'inertia' I just got googling that along with harness and voila! So cheers :mrgreen:

This seems like a cracking choice in all aspects, and made in the UK too! :thumleft: It also apparently bolts right onto the stock seatbelt locations so no drilling or spreader plates needed.


These look pretty interesting, anyone had any experience with them?
It looks like you would still have to drill into the rear firewall, they are designed to bolt into the same location as existing seat belts in cars with back seats, installation instructions say you want to keep them as straight and horizontal as possible, so straight behind the seats on the firewall in our case.
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

Lefty1991 wrote:
mr2nut123 wrote:
CalMac wrote:Don't see why not, seems pretty cool :thumleft: Best of both worlds


I had no idea this type of design even existed. When you guys mentioned the word 'inertia' I just got googling that along with harness and voila! So cheers :mrgreen:

This seems like a cracking choice in all aspects, and made in the UK too! :thumleft: It also apparently bolts right onto the stock seatbelt locations so no drilling or spreader plates needed.


These look pretty interesting, anyone had any experience with them?
It looks like you would still have to drill into the rear firewall, they are designed to bolt into the same location as existing seat belts in cars with back seats, installation instructions say you want to keep them as straight and horizontal as possible, so straight behind the seats on the firewall in our case.


I'll be the test dummy lads :thumleft:
Lefty1991
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by Lefty1991 »

mr2nut123 wrote:
Lefty1991 wrote:
mr2nut123 wrote:

I had no idea this type of design even existed. When you guys mentioned the word 'inertia' I just got googling that along with harness and voila! So cheers :mrgreen:

This seems like a cracking choice in all aspects, and made in the UK too! :thumleft: It also apparently bolts right onto the stock seatbelt locations so no drilling or spreader plates needed.


These look pretty interesting, anyone had any experience with them?
It looks like you would still have to drill into the rear firewall, they are designed to bolt into the same location as existing seat belts in cars with back seats, installation instructions say you want to keep them as straight and horizontal as possible, so straight behind the seats on the firewall in our case.


I'll be the test dummy lads :thumleft:


Please do and feed back with pics :thumleft:
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

Lefty1991 wrote:
mr2nut123 wrote:
Lefty1991 wrote:

These look pretty interesting, anyone had any experience with them?
It looks like you would still have to drill into the rear firewall, they are designed to bolt into the same location as existing seat belts in cars with back seats, installation instructions say you want to keep them as straight and horizontal as possible, so straight behind the seats on the firewall in our case.


I'll be the test dummy lads :thumleft:


Please do and feed back with pics :thumleft:


Ordered and should be on the way tomorrow! They also included a few spreader plates. He agreed, don't need to be welded as it's behind a firewall.

He confirmed they bolted directly onto the two current posts from the OEM seatbelt too, so if all good, you only need to drill one hole with these beauties.
mr2nut123
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by mr2nut123 »

Lefty1991 wrote:
mr2nut123 wrote:
CalMac wrote:Don't see why not, seems pretty cool :thumleft: Best of both worlds


I had no idea this type of design even existed. When you guys mentioned the word 'inertia' I just got googling that along with harness and voila! So cheers :mrgreen:

This seems like a cracking choice in all aspects, and made in the UK too! :thumleft: It also apparently bolts right onto the stock seatbelt locations so no drilling or spreader plates needed.


These look pretty interesting, anyone had any experience with them?
It looks like you would still have to drill into the rear firewall, they are designed to bolt into the same location as existing seat belts in cars with back seats, installation instructions say you want to keep them as straight and horizontal as possible, so straight behind the seats on the firewall in our case.


Looks like I'm the first to really spot these. They are US built and they are the only company to have thought of this so far. I believe there will be more to come, it looks perfect!

He confirmed that we will need to use the rear firewall as putting it in place of the stock inertia reel is a bad idea for obvious reasons :wink:

I'll keep you all posted.
Lefty1991
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Re: Harness without rollcage

Post by Lefty1991 »

Sounds good, look forward to seeing what you think of them, Its ood that it came with spreader plates
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