BMW M5

[Graeme Shaw]

Just got back from a stag doo in Edinburgh and was lucky enough to be taken up from Newcastle in an M5, and thought id share my thoughts/experience.

Before I tell you about it, let me just say that I absolutely love my 2 and thought i could never sell it, however i think im gonna have to sell my 2 for an E46 M3 early next year, the experience influenced me that much.

M5, big car, and pretty standard looking actually, not massively aggressive looking. Not sure a great car to pick up girls for example. Ask most girls what it is and they would probably wouldnt know how awesome this car is.

Amazingly comfortable, never seen so many buttons for adjusting my passenger seat!
Dash is very uncluttered, but so many gadgets its ridiculous! Everything is controlled by the "i drive", even heaters, air con etc.
Absolutely loved the gadgets, although I think I would crash, as I would be forever playing with the i drive, changing settings etc.

Performance is blistering. A 5 litre V10, all aluminium block.
With the "m" button pressed theres about 500 bhp available.


"Is it limited?" I asked, yep................ to 190mph!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy S*$t!!
204 mph unlimited!!!! In a 4 door boat, with a huge boot!!!

John didnt hold back from the word go, and I can really say i have never been in faster car, including driving experiences and a nas car day in the U.S.

Anyone who says any Mr2 turbo can keep up, even with a few mods is living in a dream a world. This was in another league. Maybe off the lights for about 100 yards.......

I also got a drive on the way up. It was an amazing thing for me, wasnt even bothered about getting to the stag doo now for drink, "lets just drive round for bit" I said.

The settings, the gadgets, the paddle shifts, the heads up display that changes when he pressed the "m" button were all awesome, it was so quick I scared my self. It was like a computer game, or id imagine flying a jet fighter, i wanted guns and sidewinder missiles!
What I would say is it felt the fastest after hitting 5k, the way it takes off on rolling start is un real.

I even had a go of lauching it, with and without traction control, without was the most fun! Wheel spinning in 4 gears!! The paddle shifts were immense and made the experience so much more fun.

On the way back from the stag doo on the Sunday I pretty much drove all the way back to Newcastle from Edinburgh. This was much more relaxed and what i love about this car is you can tour around in it and be so comfortable, then change the settings and its a track car.


Its seriously made me re think cars, when I came to sell my 2, i always thought id want another 2 seater go cart of some sort.

But now do i want a comfortable car that i can also rag around a track?

Maybe im getting old? I would nt have an M5 as its too big and the average mpg is about 10 mpg John reckons!!

However im checking out E46 M3s, surprised to find they are well under 10k now.

Another big thanks to J.J for letting me loose in it!

Well there you go, can tell I liked it?

G

[Charged]

Nice write up.. awesome cars.. I had a ride in one once with 3 mates to the cinema, the guy was driving it like he stole it though, it was a very scary journey.. they are just relentlessly fast!

[afennell]

your getting old,

im in the same boat, im driving the 2 less and less due to the comfort.

[matt_mr2t]

E46 M3's "comfortably" under ten grand may well be dogs.

They're fantasic cars & will suit your need for speed AND comfort.

But for the love of god buy one with your eyes open. They are hugely expensive to run properly.



Is the M5 owner JJ from here?

[Graeme Shaw]

Theres loads of M3s under 10k, you seem to struggle to find "dodgy" sounding one.

Yep, was JJ from here.

G

[matt_mr2t]

Go and look at a few and find out for yourself. Most will be 100k + (most) with worn leather and things wrong with them. Worse you'll find CAT C & D cars which some people arent happy to advertise.

There will of course be the odd reasonable one under £10k and of course, with the winter in full effect the prices will drop a bit.

I'd rather spend more and get a cherished, low mileage and well serviced one though to avoid any future pain.

£1k for a main service

[Tiamat]

Amazingly comfortable, never seen so many buttons for adjusting my passenger seat!
Dash is very uncluttered, but so many gadgets its ridiculous! Everything is controlled by the "i drive", even heaters, air con etc.
Absolutely loved the gadgets, although I think I would crash, as I would be forever playing with the i drive, changing settings etc.

See thats the kind of thing that puts me off cars like the BMW, the amount of electronic gadgetry. To me thats just something else to go wrong, especially with everything so reliant. I also know how easy it is for muppets to break your electric seats, like a mate of mine did to my Pug. Given that was 10 years ago it cost then £100 to get the new unit because you could not just get the button!

That and as Matt says, £1K for a service!?!?!!?! Way too much for me to even consider.

[Lauren]

See thats the kind of thing that puts me off cars like the BMW, the amount of electronic gadgetry. To me thats just something else to go wrong, especially with everything so reliant. I also know how easy it is for muppets to break your electric seats, like a mate of mine did to my Pug. Given that was 10 years ago it cost then £100 to get the new unit because you could not just get the button!

That and as Matt says, £1K for a service!?!?!!?! Way too much for me to even consider.

The thing is a 50K car is going to cost a lot to run no matter who makes it. That's of course the problem. Whilst you can get a decent M3 for 12K and something like a CS for 15K the running costs are always going to be high, simply because it was a very expensive car in the first place.

1K for a service is not true. I have a friend who runs an M3 and the service was under half that. A service is only going to cost 1K if there are things that need fixing.

I think it would be fair to argue that BMW electric seats are better engineered than the Pug ones!

[ryan]

Well that E46 M3 couldnt pull away from me the other day and im only 270bhp
On a serious note though, a 500bhp V10 is going to be way different even from a E46 343bhp M3. You might be a bit disappointed with an M3 after driving the M5
Personally id love an M3, very comfortable, effortless power

Regarding the Peugeot seats, wasnt a 406 coupe by any chance? £150 quid a new switch is for the seat unless youre lucky enough to find one in a breakers. Oh and £800 for a new bare bumper, makes me wonder what parts for the M3 cost

[Lauren]

Well that E46 M3 couldnt pull away from me the other day and im only 270bhp

To be fair, that's not what it's all about. A better car is not necessarily the fastest in a straightline. Far too much emphasis is placed on that IMO.

Plus as with all road situations you don't really know how hard someone is trying, if they are in the right gear etc. If you floored it a second before they did, you will keep up, I've demonstrated this a number of times coming off roundabouts, being able to keep up with much faster cars simply because I got on the power earlier.

[matt_mr2t]

Depends where you go for your service, which service you have done and of course what comes up.

But the official BMW services are split in to 2 types - inspection 1 & inspection 2 with intermediate oil & brake fluid change services.

Inspection 2 is the one that costs the most. The clue to this service is in the title - INSPECTION. They simply inspect everything. Here's the list to give you an idea. When you have that service they will find things. We're not talking oil and filters here, we're talking a comprehensive inpection and repair of almost everything on the car. BMW Inspection 2 for mine is about £300 - £350 - for an M3 it ranges from £800 - £1,100
Of course you can take them to indipendants, about £275 for mine and about £750 for an M3. These are for a full, to check list inspection, not just a general once over like most people resort to.
Note: They do the same checks on the M3 as mine. Quite why they charge 3 times as much I dont know.


BMW Inspection I

Undercarriage

Change engine oil and oil filter while engine is at normal operating temperature.

Check transmission for leaks.

Check rear axle for leaks.

Visually check fuel tank, lines and connections for leaks

Check condition, position and mounting of exhaust system. Examine for leaks.

Check power steering system for leaks

Remove and install front and reat disc brake pads, check overall thickness. Examine brake disc surfaces. Clean brake pad contact pointsin calipers. Grease wheel centering hubs.

Check steering for absence of play, condition of suspension track rods,front axle joints, steering linkage and joint disc.

Check brake and clutch system connections and lines for leaks, damage and incorrect positioning.

Check for free movement of the parking brake cables. Adjust parking brake if necessary.

Check all tie pressures (including spare). Correct if necessary. Check condition of tires (outer surfaces [left/right]), tread wear and pattern; incase of uneven tread wear readjust wheel alignment if requested (to beinvoiced separately).

Note: If requested, rotate all four road wheels as instructed and rebalance (invoice separately).


Engine Compartment
Read out diagnostic system.

Check engine cooling system/heater hose connections for leaks. Check coolant level and antifreeze protection level; add coolant if necessary.

Note: Coolant must be replaced every 2 years (time interval begins fromvehicle's production date).

Check windshield washer fluid level and antifreeze protection. Fill upand/or correct if necessary.

Check air conditioner for operation.

Reset Service Indicator.


Body/Electrical Equipment
Check battery electrolyte level and add distilled water if required.

Perform battery load test.

Checking lighting system, I.e., headlights, foglights, parking, back-up, license plate, interior (including map reading lights, glove box, flash-light, illuminated make-up mirrors, luggage compartment/area lights.

Check insturment panel and dashboard illumination.

Check all warning/indicator lights, check control.

Check turn signals, hazard warning flashers, brake lights, horns, head-light dimmer and flasher switch.

Check wipers and washer system(s); wiper blades, washer jet positions.

Check rear window washerlevel and antifreeze protection. Fill up and/or correct.

Check condition and function of safety belts.

Oil hood, trunk/tailgate and door hinges. Grease hood, trunk/tailgate and door latches. Check operations of all latches.

Check central locking/double lock.

Replace microfilter. Note: Reduce replacement interval in dusty operating conditions.

Check heater/air conditioner blower, rear window defogger.

Check rear view mirrors.

Visually examine the SRS airbag units for torn cover, obvious damage or attachment of decals, decorations or accessories.

Activate automatic roll-over protection system if equipped) via diagnostic link. Note: First remove hardtop/lower top.

Final Inspection
Road test with check of brakes, suspension, steering, clutch/manual transmission or automatic transmission.

BMW Inspection II
Includes all items listed under Inspection I and the following checks and maintenance operations:

Engine Compartment
Replace spark plugs.

Replace intake air cleaner element.Note: Reduce replacement interval in dusty operating conditions.

Check conditon of all drive belts.


Undercarriage
Change ATF in automatic transmission while at normal operating temperature.

Change oill in manual transmission while at normal operating temperature.

Change oil in rear axle while at normal operating temperature.

Check thickness of parking brake linings.

Half-shafts: Check fo rleaks at flexible boots.

Replace fuel filters. Recommended in California, required in all other states. Note: Reduce replacement interval if fuel contamination is encounteredor prevalent.

Inspect entire body according to terms of rust perforation limited warranty (must be performed at least every two years).


At Every Second Inspection II:
Change oil in manual transmission while at normal operating temperature.

Check clutch disc for wear.


Lauren, there's no way your friend had a proper inspection 2 on an M3 for less than £500
He either had an oil change (£150 for mine) or possibly an inspection 1. Either way they'd have found nothing wrong what so ever or it would have tipped the price up.
Or he's having it done at a very cheap indipendant.
Or he's not having the proper servicing done.

[Lauren]

It was an inspection 1:

well results are in :
Inspection 1 £258.40
Valve Shims x 6 @4.95 £29.70
Brake Flush £35
Coolant flush £35
Xenon headlight bracket £32.34
Exhaust Bracket £30.57
MOT £45

Total £466.01 +VAT = £547.56

You didn't specify whether it was an inspection 1 or 2.

[matt_mr2t]

Fair enough, I didnt.

Worryingly, mine doesnt appear to have had an inspection 2. Thankfully then it's not an M3 and will have it done soon

[Graeme Shaw]

Go and look at a few and find out for yourself. Most will be 100k + (most) with worn leather and things wrong with them.

Theres two full pages of them under 10k on pistoneads
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.a ... =&nodays=0

Thats without even looking properly! Most under 100k miles.

Granted there will be "dogs", but I think it will be pretty easy to pick up a good one for under 10k.

G

[matt_mr2t]

I did look yesterday. There are certainly more around under £10k than when I last looked a few months ago. Hence why I said perhaps winter has lowered prices a bit.

I bet an awful lot of them though are due an inspection 2 + have things wrong with them.

They're fantastic cars, I would recommend any one looking for a nice sporty car to go for one. But as I initially said, do it with your eyes open. They may be reliable but they certainly arent cheap to run.

Some people say "well I'll get one that's not due a service and sell it before it comes up"
The problem with that is when you come to sell it, any one with half a brain cell is going to ask when it's next due and then knock you down. This could explain why there's a lot out there for relatively cheap money.

Also, I have already become quite the convert to a convertible and they seem to cost a little more at the moment

[Lauren]

I had a good drive of my friend's E46 M3 (with flappy paddles), around 20 miles from Congleton to Stoke for a curry. I didn't really get on amazingly well with the SMG box, though this wasn't helped by my friend putting it on the sharpest setting which resulted in the car leaving the lights like a kangaroo!

But, having said that it was just such a nice car to drive. With an 8500rpm redline and such a sweet engine it was just so smooth. It piled on the speed pretty quickly too. Would absolutely love one, if only I could afford to run one.

I think that when it comes to looking at second hand cars it's a good idea to give yourself a cap on what the new car price was. I for one would look at buying a second hand car next time around, but I'd want the car to have been under 25K new so that I would know I could afford the running costs. FD2 is still a favourite as it ticks all the boxes.

[matt_mr2t]

Running costs are relative to mileage imo. As long as you know what to expect & have the money then its not an issue.
Since i discovered that it seems substantially cheaper to insure an E46 M3 than an E36 i've started to consider it in the not too distant future. That was the killer me me, i was getting quotes of £1.6k + for an E36 M3 Evo, but i could get an E46 for under a grand. Guessing its based off claim stats, its all i can think if tbh. Its not so much how much j can and cant afford, its what i feel is reasonable. Theres no way id pay that kind of money to insure an old ar$e car like that.

I wouldnt be too bothered about the other running costs, I dont do enough miles to need more than 1 service during my intended ownership period.

[Ekona]

I had a good drive of my friend's E46 M3 (with flappy paddles), around 20 miles from Congleton to Stoke for a curry. I didn't really get on amazingly well with the SMG box, though this wasn't helped by my friend putting it on the sharpest setting which resulted in the car leaving the lights like a kangaroo!

Exactly what I found when driving my mates one a few months ago, it's horribly jerky in maximum attack mode! In the end I put it in the slowest shift mode but with everything else on full sport and it was hysterical, and played a big part in me buying a flappy paddle 911.

E46 is a fantastic car though, and I'd say along with the 986 S is the current performance bargain of the moment.

[matt_mr2t]

For a car that looks 99% the same as mine they dont half look better.

Still, they say 2% is all that seperates man from ape.

The big issue of course is their desirability to toe rag theives. If you worry about a 20 year old m42 on yoir drive you'll be in a constant state of terror with a nice M3 out there.

[ryan]

Well that E46 M3 couldnt pull away from me the other day and im only 270bhp

To be fair, that's not what it's all about. A better car is not necessarily the fastest in a straightline. Far too much emphasis is placed on that IMO.

Plus as with all road situations you don't really know how hard someone is trying, if they are in the right gear etc. If you floored it a second before they did, you will keep up, I've demonstrated this a number of times coming off roundabouts, being able to keep up with much faster cars simply because I got on the power earlier.

Dont really want to go it to detail for fear of incriminating myself but he was trying believe me, and so was I

I agree with you on what youve said, but id still be disappointed if a crappy ricer could keep up with my M3 (if I had one). In will have one at some point, after ive fitted a new kitchen, bathroom, and/or moved house