My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

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nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

I have been reading this forum for a long time now (7 years) and decided it is time have my own Member Profiles thread.
The story so far:
- bought a stock Rev2 NA in 2003
- bought a crash damaged Rev3 Turbo at the end of 2005
- swaped the standardish Rev3 3SGTE into my NA in 2006
- bought another crash damaged Rev3 Turbo for a project in 2009
- built my car to handle more power from 2009-2012
- built the engine of the second Rev3 Turbo from 2009-2012
- swapped the built engine into my MR2 in 2012
- had the new engine mapped in 2013
- have been destroying random parts since

As I can't post pictures yet I have to bore you with text first ;-)
nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

These are the parts I used in my build (some I got second hand from the "Parts for Sale" Section on here):
Engine:
Mahle 86,5mm pistons
Eagle rods
ACL bearings
ARP bolts
HKS 264° High-Lift camshafts
HKS cam gears
HKS timing belt
Toyota water pump
Toyota oil pump
Supertech +1mm valves
Supertech dual, valve springs und titanium retainers
1,4mm Cometic headgasket
Radtech charge cooler with some prerad and Bosch pump (from a VW T3 Van)
Garrett GT3076R Turbokit
big K&N air filter (which didn't fit under the hood), so another smaller K&N air filter
ST215 intake manifold and throttle body
6mm teflon spacer for intake manifold (so that my modified Bosch injectors would fit with a RacerX fuel rail)
60-2 trigger wheel with VW crank sensor
selfmade cam trigger (broken distributor) with Bosch sensor
Bosch water temp sensor
Bosch 4bar map sensor (with integrated inlet air temp sensor)
Pierburg boost controle solenoid (from a Vauxhall Signum V6 Turbo)
Bosch massflow sensor (90mm from an Audi S4/RS4/S8 )
Bosch LSU 4.2
VW knock sensor
VW COPs
VW idle valve (from VR6)
modified Bosch 1150ccm injectors
RacerX fuel rail
Pierburg fuel pump (from an E55 AMG, very capable pump)
extra VW fuse box (from a Golf4) and a few extra relais
200m of automotive wire
ECU481 ECU
Zeitronix 10bar pressure sensors (for oil and fuel pressure)

Gearbox:
KAAZ 1,5 diff
longer final drive from ST165 (under 2500RPM at 100kph in 5th gear with 245/35ZR18 )
new bearings an synchroniser rings
OS Giken twin disc clutch

BBK: Movit (Porsche 993 calipers) in the front and KSport in the back

Wheels that would fit over the BBK and are nice and light: Volk Rays CE28N 8x17 ET38 and 9x18 ET35

Suspension
KW Var3
Tein pillow ball top mounts
Tein pillow ball tension rods
Megan Racing pillow ball rear trailing arms
Poly bushes everywhere I don't have pillow ball yet ;-)

Cusco rollcage

Recaro buckets: Profi SPG drivers seat and Pole Position passengers seat both on Bride consoles with Schroth 3" harnesses
Last edited by nis on Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

When I first got the car it looked like this:
Image

It had 17" wheels, a decat and a very loud exhaust.

After a few years, with the 3SGTE inside and some forged 16" wheels it looked like this:
Image

And in 2012 ready for more power it looked like this:
Image
Last edited by nis on Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

For the build, I'll let the pictures do the talking.
All of this had to go into the engine:
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The block bored and honed:
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Crank, rods, pistons, water pump, oil pump and oil pan fitted:
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Built head, had to be slightly modified for the high lift camshafts:
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Turbokit:
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Head, Turbokit, timing belt and cranktrigger fitted:
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Robust and cheap VW parts ;-)
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Cam trigger still missing the notch:
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Fuel system stage1 (SARD fuel rail, 850 Siemens injectors and Bosch 044 fuel Pump) this had to be changed later on in the build for the bigger injectors):
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I did a flowtest on the 850ccm injectors with the fuel prerssure at 3,6bar:
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The fuel rail is fed from both sides:
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As stage1 was deemed too small, fuel system stage2 went in:
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I also flowtested the Bosch injectors, they flowed a bit more than the 850s ;-).

Modified in tank pickup:
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The old engine had to come out:
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I had a look at the cooling system and my raditor looked like this:
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There might be a correlation with this damage:
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So I fitted a new radiator support:
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I moved my GREX oil cooler from it's standard location in front of the gearbox to the location of the standard intercooler:
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Radtech chargecooler core fitted in a place it was never intended for:
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Gearbox ready for action:
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Wait, still missing the correct oil:
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The engine ready to go in (at least that was what I thought at the time, I had to remove the intake manifold several times while the engine was in the car to change the fuel system, so much fun...).
Yes, I did all the wiring myself.
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Hose and pump for the charge cooler:
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I had to do some wiring in the trunk:
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This is what I wired all those wires to. Very cool ECU with wideband control, boost control, knock control, launch control, map switching, engine safety diagnostic and so much more.
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The engine finally in the car:
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After all that I got a base map to run in the engine, as it clearly wouldn't run with a standard ECU ;-).
The first mapping session revealed a few shortcomings of the build at that time:
- above 1,4bar of boost it was leaning out as for fuel delivery not beeing up to the task, hence fuel system stage2.
- my crank trigger didn't work properly as the ECU lost synch at 6900RPM, the gap between the sensor and trigger wheel was too big and the sensor was slightly misaligned.

On my way home that day one of the COPs died, can you tell which one?
Image

Since then I changed some stuff, like the hose connections for the idle valve, BOV recirc, cam timing, heat shields, etc.
I also broke some stuff, like turbo inlet gasket:
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and the turbo outlet hose:
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With that I went into the second mapping session which yielded the followig results:
- the small air filter could not flow more than 1300kg/h of air (I have no idea what that is in cfm, sorry)
- intake air temp at the end (7700RPM) of 3rd gear at 2bar boost is 55�C, 5-10�C less would be better (maybe a stronger pump would help).

After that I changed the air filter location and the filter itself for a K&N Extreme which flows a whopping 1600kg/h at 2bar (the flow without a filter was only 1630kg/h, so it is a very good filter for it's small size)

This is what the engine bay looks now:
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As I drive the car every day I guess that more things will breake over time, but the engine has been strong for the 5000 miles it has been in there so far.

I think I can get a dyno figure now and see what's what ;-)
Last edited by nis on Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Magic Beans
Posts: 4789
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:01 pm

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by Magic Beans »

Very nice :thumleft:

Those wheels suit it well.
Rob B
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:50 am

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by Rob B »

Very nice indeed a good all round set up....

Would be interesting to see how this handles with the uprated parts..
ashley
Posts: 7628
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:08 pm

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by ashley »

Very nice- thanks for sharing :thumleft: :thumleft:
moscoworbust
Posts: 443
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by moscoworbust »

AWESOME!!!

I love big power stuff and especially if it's done by the owner. Really great work!

What induction kit did you use? Can you post a link/picture?

Where did you get your fuel rail and injectors?
nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

I use this K&N filter: RX-4140. It is very small and unrestrictive. And the 90mm flange fits my air massflow sensor perfectly.

The fuel rail is made by RacerX fabrications in the US. It is the only fuel rail that will fit injectors with 14mm o-rings that I could find for the 3SGTE.

The injectors are modified Bosch 1150ccm. These are specially made for the guy who built my ecu (MME, the page is only in german). According to him these inject more linearly over temperature than the standard Bosch 1150ccm injectors. What I can say is that I have a good low idle despite their high flow capacity. For the power I'm making now these might not be necessary, but now I have the option of going for E85 and more agressive ignition timing.
nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

Small update. Got my first dyno figure (german dyno sheet, sorry):
Image

More tinkering has to be done.
Last edited by nis on Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

I think it is time for a major update.
The car is still running and being tinkered with.

After the dyno result I had to find the issue that let the boost pressure drop above ~5000rpm. It was found that the intake was restricting the possible maximum airmassflow into the turbo leading to a drop in boost pressure.

Before I was able to fix this I had some other problems with the car.
One air massflow sensor died on me and the gasket for the throttle valve heating also failes at the same time.
Image

After fixing that I had a problem with air metering. Around 25% of measured airmass didn't reach the combustion chamber which resulted in an extremely rich fuel mixture. It was very hard to pinpoint this particular problem. Half of it was due to some boost leaks between the turbo and throttle valve. The other half was due to calibration for the injection valves. The second half I only found after taking the engine apart to check if that was the cause.
While the engine was apart I found these:
Cylinder 1:
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Cylinder 3:
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Cylinder 4:
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It looked like some dirt went through the engine, compression was still good.

The valves were also leaking due to carbon buildup after running very rich.
So I had to fix all of that.
New pistons were in order (JE with ceramic coating on the top and friction coating on the skirts):
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I also went from the Cometic gasket to an OEM one from the ST215 (which is 1,2mm thick).

While the engine was out I used the space to install fuel system number 3 with a Fuelab pump which is controlled by my ecu:
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I also optimized my handbrake setup with extra calipers:
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Some time after that the engine was back together:
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With the engine back in the car, I had it mapped again, at which point the rich running was fixed. Now I could tackle the intake restriction.
First was a new highflow compressor housing (old one on the left ;-) , new one with 4" inlet):
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The thing with new parts is, that they promptly have to be modified:
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After getting a tig welder I also modified my charge cooler core, charge piping and intake piping. The core had been the wrong way around (the water connections on the bottom) and the charge piping was longer than it needed to be.
Optimized intake piping with old charge piping:
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Cutting up the core:
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Welded a straight pipe to it:
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New charge piping on the left, half the length of the old piping:
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All new piping, looks much cleaner now and charge coller core flipped around, this makes it much easier to purge the air out of it:
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After a while of driving the car developed an oil leak, which was a cracked dipstick pipe. Has anyone ever seen something like this before?
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I also modified my HKS exhaust from 2,5" to foll 3", because I had a spare one lying aroung. (Not the best way to cut open one of those mufflers, but I'm learning ;-) )
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Old vs. new:
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After that I had a problem with boiling fuel in hot weather, so I isolated my fuel rail and added a fuel cooler (I think it came out of a VW Golf 5 TDI):
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Right now the car is running great. But on 2bar of boost I found a new issue. If the fuel level goes below around 2/5 of a tank, I loose fuel pressure during longer full load accelerations. My theory is, that my controlled fuel pump leads to a very low amount of returned fuel, so the OEM surge tank is emptied during the high load, as fuel can only get in over the top or from behind.
So right now I am trying to fix this with this (not yet installed):
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And last but not least I made a little video of one of my test drives this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HznQSJmL0Fs (my first attempt at this, so please bear with me)
Last edited by nis on Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

Update:

A few months of driving with the new exhaust I noticed that my clutch didn't disengage completely any more. So the engine came out to check the clutch.

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The clutch discs themselfes still had some life left in them, but the release bearing had worked itself roughly 1mm into the springs, so the clutch couldn't disengange completely any more. (Has been on the car for ~100000km (60000mi)
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So I changed my OS Giken twin plate for a Clutchmasters FX700 which I had lying around.

With the engine out I could also do a few other things, like pressing a new bearing onto the long part of the right side driveshaft.
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I also put in the tank that has the hydramat instead of the standard swirl pot.

After that the engine went back into the car. And my clutch and fueling issues were resolved.

The 3" exhaust also had one issue, it resonated quite loudly at common speeds, like 70kph and 100kph which annoyed my quite a bit. So I built another exhaust with a longer center muffler.
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And because I don't like the bling too much, I painted it black.
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And I used a 100 CPSI cat as my Tailpipe.
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I also insulated the waterlines for the charge cooler for better IATs (maybe)
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After some more driving I killed another turbo inlet gasket.
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And my KW coilovers broke (had some play in the shafts), so I took them out and had them refurbished at KW.
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One of the Tein top mount also needed a new bearing. Those have been on the car for ~80000km (50000mi). It's very convenient that the bearings are available seperately.

I also broke another MAF as it was directly connected to the engine and apperently these VW MAFs don't like engine vibration that much. So I attached the new one to the chassis and isolated it as well.
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With some more Autobahn driving I noticed another issue. My turbo would staticly surge at constant high speeds >180kph (~110mph) as the throttle valve is only slightly open and the GT3076R produces a lot of airflow at those engine speeds (>5500rpm). As a countermeasure I changed the exhaust housing of the turbo for the next size A/R (I think it's 0,82 now).
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As emissions control is quite strict and the car couldn't be tested properly with the cat as the tailpipe I built myself a new 3" downpipe with 200 CPSI cat inside.
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This one I heat wrapped to get temps down in the engine compartment.
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With all this done it was time for a revised tune and a new dyno session.
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With a few results.
4th gear pulls, engine protection (exhaust temp too high) is interfeering at the top end.
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3rd gear pulls looked better as the pull itself didn't take as long.
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At this point the cat so close to the turbo is the limiting factor for power. The engine and turbo could do more (we saw an air massflow of 1770kg/h). But high exhaust temps (970°C) held us back.

Also my alternator has some problem as the voltage started oscilating between 11V and 16V above 4700rpm. I will have to look into that.

So much for the update :-)
Last edited by nis on Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BALDYMONSTER
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:39 am

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by BALDYMONSTER »

Awesome!
nis
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: My Rev2 NA with built Rev3 3SGTE

Post by nis »

To remedy my oscilating voltage (dying alternator) I put in a new alternator
As this is the second standard rev3 turbo alternator that died on me, I wanted to use a different alternator with a little more power.
So I used a 120A alternator for a Land Cruiser, which has the same attachement points as the MR2 alternator.
The post for the charging cable and the pulley are different.
The pulley can be transfered from the MR2 alternator and the different post location works for my setup.

120A on the left, old 90A on the right:
Image

The Toyota part number für the Land Cruiser alternator is: 27060-17230

The new alternator works fine for now.
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